Ideal Sailing Cruisers

[JamesFrance]

When I first started cruising there were no RYA courses or flotilla holidays. I was an avid reader of books by the Hiscocks, Pyes and others and spent many hours studying Reeds Almanac, which contained most of what one needed to know then.

My first cruise as skipper was alone from Lymington to Portmadoc with many stops along the way. What a learning curve that was!

We then bought a 42ft Motorsailer in Malta and returned to Falmouth the next year via the canal du midi. The Biscay was quite something with drying out 20 tons of boat in most harbours and the massive swells.

We were very young then with two small children. I guess that at my present age it would all seem much more difficult.

If you really want to go ahead, go for it, you will learn as you go along.

 

[captainslarty]

Must agree, well said.. I would caution against yot clubs, dont see the point, and you will learn nothing from them. The rya is helpful, but only very basic.
Yes, do a lot of reading, do a few courses, dont bother with flotilla type holidays.. spend the money on an 18 foot day sailor and play. Yes, it helps the liveaboard life if you can sail lol, but there is SO much more to it.. most dont do this to actually 'sail', they do it to live, in relative freedom and have control.
Walk around any marina in europe that has liveaboards, TALK to people, most will be more than welcome to ask you aboard and show you around the boat / chat etc..
Joe n Jayne

 

[masimcox]

Many thanks for the great advice. I have printed off all the suggestions so far and included them in a scrap book which I have started to gather all the information I can. I very much like the idea posted by Captaislarty to buy a smaller day sailer to learn the ropes so to speak. I will look into this further, i even think I have just read an article somwhere about these types of boats for about £2-3K. Again many thanks and keep the info coming its great.

 

[captainslarty]

A pal of mine picked up a nice little Bradwell 18 recently for 1100 squids with trailor outboard, spares etc, bit tatty but a solid boat.. (Drop keel - go anywhere tub)
So you dont need to pay a lot.. so long as its structurally sound sod the looks lol..
you will learn loads quickly.. just get a good vhf, lifejacket, flairs etc and have fun.. there will be MANY people who will assist in the fist few sails I am sure.. in fact, if you ask on one of these fora, I am sure someone will assist...

Most of all enjoy, read a lot, look around, and keep asking, nothing is a silly question, we have all had a very steep learning curve.. and as said, the sailing part of liveaboard life is not the b all and end all, there are other subjects far more complex and time consuming.. it is a complete new way of looking at life, unless of course you are loaded lol.. if you are, I cant help, cos Jayne n I live happilly on 800 euros a month and love it.. short of nothing.

A great life.

 

[Jonny_H]

Another thing we did (other than reading Yachting Monthly, PBO etc!) was to go to Southampton Boat Show (but leave the wallet at home!). We spent Saturday at the show and did nothing but look on loads of different boats. We then spent Sunday going around the used boat shows that are on near Southampton at the time of the main show (Hamble Point, Port Hamble, Swanwick, and another one I can't quite recall).

At the end of the weekend you have no idea which boat was which (far too much to take in) but you do get a feel for what you like and don't like in terms of layout etc - which will help when you come to buy.

SWMBO found lots of things she did and didn't like which helped narrow down the shortlist when we actually got the piggy bank out!

A camera is a good idea too - take lots of pics of things you do and don't like.

Basically the more time you can spend around boats the better. All experience is good experience.

I agree starting with something smaller will quickly help you get to grips with it all, but window shopping in the background will undoubtedly help.

(By the way - the reason I suggest SIBS and the used shows is that the don't mind people being nosey and theres generally no pressure from brokers etc which there would be when looking outside the show period).

Jonny

 

[captainslarty]

Jonny, good sound advice, but If I amy offer a caution...

Beware of looking at 'what you like', and what swmbo 'likes' (Not you personally that is, but for a new user thinking of liveaboard life)

it is SO easy to base ones likes n dislikes on what you are used to, space, perceived comfort. airy, 'neat', clean, easy to KEEP clean, etc etc etc..

This can often lead the person to buying completely the wrong boat for their intended use.

It really DOES pay to research yachty design features, keel layout, sea keeping abilities etc in relation to the intended use of course..

I would be a cold day in hell before I bought anything at the boat show as a liveaboard cruiser lol...

Things like... battery capacity and space to add more !.. alternator size, power supply in general, water and diesel tank capacity, ease of maintnance, STORAGE areas, lot n lots n lots... smallest boat you are comfortable with, not biggest, cheaper to run, easier to sail, moor and maintain.
Quality of fittings, size, manageability of rig, position of berts for comfort at sea and in dock. Access to hull in emergencies.. Lack of in mast furling aghhhh.. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.... a horrible system... imho..
Cockpit size, security, drainage.. bilge pump capacity.. strength of hull, underbody, rudder..

All these BEFORE I consider the overall layout and aesthetic qualities...

not many modern boats fit the cruising bill in these areas..

Again, all my humble opinion.. but as the what boat do you own for liveaboard or similar thread shows, it is the opinion of MOST who are actually out there.

Personally, I would not have a modern fin keel spade rudder even on my backup list for this purpose..

 

[Jonny_H]

Absolutely agree ... but we found the boat show boats helped in this respect:

1) We saw boats 'designed' around 2 batteries and thought - what a bad idea, we would need more than that!
2) We saw 'open and airy' boats and then we're amazed when we found our boat at how much storage it had compared to the modern boats.
3) We looked at modern boats with shallow bilges which then had under-bunk storage filled with water tanks, and thought - deeper bilges, tanks down there (and bigger tanks at that) and also under-bunk storage bins!

etc, etc

Often a good round of AWB bashing does wonders to help you rationalise what kind of a boat you really want.

I remember stepping off a Bavaria 36 and onto the Oyster Heritage next to it (both the same size) and thinking "wow, feels a lot smaller, but what a great boat with loads of storage, big lockers, lots of tankage, deep secure cockpit" etc.

If you look on our website we did some research into displacements (a little for sea keeping and some for weight carrying reasons), and found this very interesting.

Like you we didn't want in mast furling - partly as I am a racer of origin and couldn't live with the sail shape, but also as we had had a bad experience of it in the past (ableit on an aftermarket fitted system that was on review badly made).

This said - there's a lot to be said for the newer boats - I know I would have saved many hours re-wiring, fixing heads, cleaning bilges, recovering upholstery etc if we had bought a newer boat - however we wouldn't have half as good (IMHO) a boat as we have now. It's all a compramise ain't it!!

p.s. - Slarty - You still want those Azores charts - I have them on one side for you?

Jonny

 

[captainslarty]

Excelent stuff. and very well put... you WILL be ok out there. great attitude and approach.

re the charts YES PLEASE johnny, with all the medical crap back n forward to the uk I mispaced your details, please re-pm me... am back in the uk next week so we can arrange postage.. sorry about the confusion.
Regards

Joe.

 

[JamesFrance]

You cannot beat a bit of dinghy racing to learn how a boat sails, in my case national service in the RAF provided that. Most dinghy clubs have people looking for crew.

 

[captainslarty]

lol, yes, my first boat (at 13 years old) was a Mirror Dinghy on the Isles of Scilly.

we went EVERYWHERE in it.. like riding a bike... and great fun...

 

[Tranona]

We are about 7 years into a 10 year "retirement" project that started like yours (except had lots of actual sailing experience here). Did 3 years chartering in Turkey and Greece to get the feel of it. Decided that buying a boat in Greece through a charter management deal was best for us, because we liked the Greek end better than bashing around in the Channel. Have had 7 years holiday on boat, which is now ours. Retire this year so getting it ready for more use. Plan is to return to UK through French canals in a couple of years time, so completing the circuit the other way round.

Choice of boat this way is limited, but as others will agree, most modern boats are fine in the Med environment. stepping off into blue water is a different kettle of fish and IMO requires a different kind of boat, and I would not want to compromise if my main objective was as described. If you get the blue water bug, sell the med pleasure boat and get something more appropriate!

All the stuff about kitting out and enhancing your boat you will pick up as you go along from your own experience and others, particularly through this forum. suggest when you get the boat you don't go mad on the extras, but just get it equipped to near MCA standard on safety etc. That gives you a purpose to spend part of your annual budget on upgrades.

 

[JamesFrance]

Yeah, I became 70 yrs old last thursday and my wife and I are not going too far now. That is why we have a modern cheap boat with all the comforts. We also have a nice French villa with pool for when it all becomes too much and we need excellent health care.

We have lived on boats for years, but eventually it makes sense to have a backup system available to you.

I always wanted a small Jongert, but the price was too great.

Everything is a compromise, so just go for what appeals.