Ideal Sailing Cruisers

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masimcox

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For the past few months I have it in my head that I would like to sail a boat from UK to the Greek Islands and then decide what to do from there. This is hopefully pre planning for retirement (at 55) in 3 and half years time so I am in no rush. I have started to read the Monthly mags and this forum for information etc. My question is Can you give me an idea of the models of boat that I should look at. I have no sailing experience and intend to make the journey mainly with just myself and my wife. Any steering in the right directions would be most helpful.

Thanks

Mark
 
Wow - big question!

It really depends on many factors, here are a few (in no particular order):

1) How much do you have to spend? (including refit costs and extra equipment which can be upto 10 or 20% of purchase price)
2) New or Used?
3) How are you getting to Greece (if through the canals then draught a priority)
4) What are your plans afterwards (if ocean passages then water and fuel capacity important)
5) Marina's or Anchorages (if marina's I would suggest less than 12m (40ft) as this is usually the price band (10 - 12m; 12m+))
6) Monohull or Cat?
7) Just two of you or will you have occassional guests?
8) Do you want to sail from the UK or would you consider an ex-charter boat already in Greece?

Think about the above and it may help.

I would then suggest entering some criteria into the Advance Search feature on www.yachtworld.com they have a huge list of boats from many brokers all over the world. Look at lots of pictures and visit as many boats in your size/price bracket as you can to get an idea of layout etc.
Remeber you will spend a lot of time in the cockpit in the Med, and more time in the cabin in the UK - so make sure each is big enough for your intended sailing.

Sorry I can't be more specific - but hope this is some sort of starter for you.

Jonny
 
As you have time and an open mind how about having a holiday in one of the cruiser ports, or near by and have a wander around talking to boat owners, you'll see a huge variety of types and usually a friendly welcome with many differing opinions as to why their boat is good. Going on other peoples boats is a good way to find out what you really like.

A holiday In Coruna NW Spain, or Graciosa in the Canaries during late summer would let you see many different yachts and owners who have made offshore passages.
 
As a newcomer to yachts, it would be much easier for you to buy one of the modern mass produced boats new , which are very good value for money and would let you gain knowledge before you need to think of refits and other replacements of expensive electronics etc.

The trend now seems to be for bigger and bigger boats, but for a couple they will be harder to handle than something smaller. Many people have lived for years on a boat of around 28ft. If your budget allows, maybe up to about 35ft, but the running costs are very much in proportion to size.

You don't say whether this will be your sole residence or just for extended holidays, but if you buy small a mistake will be less costly than finding you have something you are not comfortable with handling.
 
Try a flotilla holiday first to see how you like it. You will get some understanding of what sailing is about plus experience of at least one boat.

Join a club & offer yourself as a crew member to get more experience. Buying a boat and sailing off is not as easy as it sounds - get a copy of John Caudwell's "Dangerous Voyage" to see what happens when people try that approach. He nearly made it & didn't die in the attempt, thanks to friendly natives.
 
Jonny's points are all relevant and warrant consideration. The best place to start out is the budget, when considering what boat. But before you get that far i'd start trying to get some experience. Do some RYA courses join a local club and try and get some sailing on a variety of different boats.

We spent 4 years researching before we left and we looked at every suitable boat that came up within easy traveling distance from home even though we wern't ready to buy. The nets great for research as well but some oats look mutch better on-line than they are in reality!

My conclusions... that a monohull of around 40Ft would provide sufficient accommodation for us (family of four) had we been without kids we would have probably gone for 35 or 37Ft. Having started out liking the bullet proof ketch rigged older long keeler, my mind changed over time as i discovered the importance of having control in reverse in the med and the advantages of a less complex rig which also provides better performance so ultimately for a mono i'd be looking for a high 30 something footer with a cutter or sloop rig fin keel and skeg hung rudder (less efficient but better protected).

As for catamarans (which is what we bought) it had to be around 40Ft for stability have a bridge deck clearance of 2Ft ish to reduce wave slap and 2 engines for maneuverability in harbor.

As it happens our limited budget resulted in us unusually going up in size to 45Ft!!
 
Hi John, I think some of your figures are misleading, if not incorrect.

For example..

SA/D

From Ted Brewer

SAIL AREA/DISPLACEMENT RATIO: The SA/D ratio is the sail area in sq. ft. divided by the displacement in cubic feet to the 2/3 power, or SA/D.667 .

Ratios below 14 are suited for motor sailers, from 14-17 for ocean cruisers and from 16-18 for typical coastal cruisers. Ratios over 18-20 are seen on racing dinghies, inshore racers and ocean racing yachts. The more extreme screamers can have very high SA/D ratios indeed; My 60 foot design, WILD THING, had a SA/D ratio, based on 100% foretriangle, of well over 30, depending on her displacement at the moment. Her displacement varied widely as she could carry 8,000 pounds of water ballast in tanks on the windward side.

you are saying 17 to 25 for a cruiser ??.. me thinks not.

Also, the comfort ratio is NOT about space, its about motion in a seaway.

Might be worth just checking your figures again.

Joe.
 
Broaden your horizons and look at long term cruisers in and around the Med' and Algarve areas. Talk to the people who are 'out there on the sea doing it'.
There is no right boat, apart from the one that fits the bill for what you want.

But look around and don't have a fixed idea, and don't forget, if it seems to good to be true, it is!

Best of luck and enjoy your retirement when it comes along.
 
It's very subjective; Rod Johnstone and Jay Paris disagree with Ted Brewer. When I re-wrote that article recently I upped the SAD figure to 25 for a cruising boat to accomodate 'performance cruisers' which have become popular.
Regarding 'comfort ratio', the article suggests you select your own criteria based on what you consider important. There is no accepted 'comfort ratio' such as the SAD or the Displacement/ Length ratio.
 
Hi John
ted brewer developed the comfort ratio, it is a fair inidcator of motion in a seaway for most humans.

What is a performance cruiser ?? lol... I agree with much of your pdf file.. very well laid out... but performance cruisers TEND to have the things you recommend against.. sily fins with unsupported rudders, flattish bottom profiles etc.. great for circumnavigating the ilse of wight on a good day.. but...

yes, I agree it is subjective, but not that much.. sa/d of 17 to 25 is WAY over the top for any sensible long distance cruiser.
The sail area is also calculated from a normal 100 % triangle (fore) not per manufacturers actual sail area. I would definitely NOT recommend anyone looking for a comfortable, safe, and sustainable cruising home for travelling distance to even consider such beasts.. 25 is outrageous.

Spreadsheet with lots of good cruising boats etc

SA/D of your kind of figures are asking for trouble.. and, if they follow your advice re B/d ratio, (edit - along with high sa/d !) they will have a virtually unmanageable rig for a single hander, and, most cruising couples effectively sail single handed when on passage.

Joe.
 
The Arcona 46, X-46, Finngulf 46 and the Swan 45 (featured in this months YM) are all performance cruisers with SAD's in the mid to high 20's. They are a new breed of fast cruiser which I'd be happy to take blue water cruising.
Yes, Ted Brewer has his own comfort ratio, so do other designers. They are all different. I am suggesting that anyone can create their own depending on their specific priorities. Comfort ratio is not a recognised measure such as SAD or the other universal ratios.
Here endeth this discussion.
 
John
They are NOT liveaboard cruisers.. they are the racy end of modern design

Just cos Yot munthly or whatever feature them does not make them good...
Arcona is a case in point... NOT a serious liveaboard or anything.
again, good for the round the island and cowes week.. a bit of a joke otherwise.

Please do not seriously offer these as serious cruising boats, they are not.. they are a recipe for problems.

Joe
 
At the moment you have no frame of reference on which to base your decisions. Fine - we all start like that, but you are very vulnerable to salesmen with an agenda. So what Searush said is absolutely bang on - get yourself knowledge through a club and flotilla holidays and training courses and the magazines. Just lock up your wallet for a couple of years whilst you do so.
 
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