ID Stern Glands

As stern seals go Tides Marine are about as good as they get, in my mind a superior design to PSP.

With any seal that's provided with water from the engine you need to prove the flow of water each year, you should remove the pipe from the seal and run it for a minute at idle and get at least 4.5 litres.

If they are 17 years old they definitively need replacing.
 
Its a job to do out of the water.

Test the flow before you lift out, then if there is a problem you can rectify it.

You are going to have to release the shaft coupling and pull the shaft to fit new Tides seals and spare carrier and seal.

Its a good time take off the props and to pull the shafts right out and replace both upper and P bracket cutless bearings as a preemptive strike, the upper ones have probably never been changed anyway.

Another thing worth doing is making up a pulling plate and drilling both props to suit, this will make pulling the props much easier in the future.
 
Bandit said:
Its a good time take off the props and to pull the shafts right out and replace both upper and P bracket cutless bearings as a preemptive strike, the upper ones have probably never been changed anyway.
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Not sure I agree
There is a LOT more work to get the shafts completely out and replace the cutless bearings.
Rudders out - props off - boat lifted high enough to get the rudders out etc.
If they don't need doing, I would leave the cutless bearings as they are.

We moved our port engine last winter - so needed its shaft moved back.
Actually that shaft seal showed signs of wear but the cutless bearings were fine.

Just disconnecting the tiller from the rudder left enough space to do our work.

serve.php
 
H, cutless bearings in the p bracket last about 3 to 6 years.

Upper cutless bearings last longer but how much longer?

John said the boat is 17 years old, I believe in future proofing a boat.

If it were me I would do shaft seals and all four cutless bearings to reset the job for the next four to six years.

Cutless bearings are not expensive, and a yard with the correct tools can do it efficiently at the same time.
 
You only need to remove the prop and then use a sliding tube puller to push the cutless out. No need to move shaft
 
Bandit said:
H, cutless bearings in the p bracket last about 3 to 6 years.

Upper cutless bearings last longer but how much longer?

John said the boat is 17 years old, I believe in future proofing a boat.

If it were me I would do shaft seals and all four cutless bearings to reset the job for the next four to six years.

Cutless bearings are not expensive, and a yard with the correct tools can do it efficiently at the same time.
Click to expand...

My cutless bearings are 11 years old now.
No play at all in them.
I think you underestimate the extra work to replace cutless bearings.
If your cutless bearings are that bad, you should do the upper ones as well.

You do have to move the shaft back from the gearbox and remove the flange to fit completely new Tides units.
Like most boats fitted with Tides Seals, I have two spare lip seals in carriers upstream on the deep seal.
If a seal fails, you can cut it out and slide a spare down.
This can be done in the water.
It happened to us.
 
Like all jobs with the correct tools and experience its easy.

With cutless bearing pullers the P brackets can be done in situ with the prop off.

To do the upper bearing the shaft needs to be drawn.

The shaft seal is of indeterminate age (possibly original) and so is the spare.

My assumption is that the OP wants to keep the boat for 5 years or more and wants to future proof any work he does.

The other thing I forgot was that when the prop is refitted inspect the key and keyway carefully for any corrosion or movement of the prop on the key, if necessary replace the key.

Boat builders do not normally bed the props to the shaft using an abrasive paste, ie put paste on the shaft and without the key in place rotate the prop backwards and forwards to remove any high spots in the bore of the prop, when completed clean prop and shaft and use engineering blue to see whether the prop fits correctly on the taper.

Inspect the shaft carefully for wear and any damage, if felt necessary spin the shaft in a lathe to check truth, especially the taper.

This is worthwhile doing to ensure the prop fits correctly to the shaft and there are no high spots.

When refitting the coupling use all new Nylock bolts.

TBH this is a big job, probably best left to a well equipped contractor or boatyard. Do not allow them to "drift" the props off using lump hammers, this is bad practice.

Clean shaft and prop with brick cleaner and rinse off thoroughly.

When I bought my boat that was 7 years old the first thing I did was to replace stern seals and all cutless bearings, the first winter i replaced all skin fittings and valves.

The other thing for the OP is depending on info from previous owner is to carefully inspect all skin fittings and valves, depending on condition and known age replace all poor condition units and anything over 7 years old with new DZR units.

I work in a boatyard, mainly motorboats and we do shaft, cutless bearing work, engine alignment, sternseals all the time.
 
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Thanks for all the comments: unfortunately, I have only been given a very short timeslot to complete these works whilst some other minor repairs are being carried out. Tides Marine have been very good indeed and have despatched the new seal kits with brushes and spare carriers/seals and I have arranged for our local engineers Angel Cornet (Tallers Cornet) a long standing family business of marine engineers that service us all very well in SC (and do the fishing fleet) to fit them.

I take on board Bandit's advice, but as the boat has done so few hours and I checked for play on the shafts and P Brackets when out a few weeks ago, and given there is no perceivable vibration when run, I reckon they will be fine until next season, when I will take her out for a month once again.

As I recall Cornet use a special hydraulic puller to release the gearbox flange from the shaft, we shall see, I will take some pictures. All booked for Wednesday-Friday 13-15 November, when some gelcoat scratches are being touched-up. MDL have been very accommodating as always the manager of the marina Nicolas is exceptionally competent and helpful.
 
You cant rely on vibration as being the sole indicator.

When you have the boat ashore or in the hoist slings lift the prop you are looking for shaft movement to be less than 1mm.

Check the cutless bearings for damage, split rubber, de-lamination of the rubber, the rubber protruding from the bronze carrier.

Get the size of the cutless bearings and order in a full set and keep them on board, they dont go off. I keep a set on board, this season I picked up a rope despite rope cutters but luckil I did not damage cutless bearings.
 
No movement whatsoever at the moment when shafts/props checked recently, the lack of vibration a secondary factor - but I do think taking details and obtaining new cutlass bearings now, for insertion later, makes some sense if only to avoid inflation! So will take that on board and thank you for your comments/advice.
 
Having gone to great lengths taking and sending pictures of the existing shaft seals to Tides Marine, they sent the worng ones!

Only one water injection taping and not two as shown and fitted originally by Princess. How disappointing. Hopefully the correct units will arrive this week! They have responded promptly to my email, which is a relief, not long to go before the boat is lifted....
 
John100156 said:
Having gone to great lengths taking and sending pictures of the existing shaft seals to Tides Marine, they sent the worng ones!

Only one water injection taping and not two as shown and fitted originally by Princess. How disappointing. Hopefully the correct units will arrive this week! They have responded promptly to my email, which is a relief, not long to go before the boat is lifted....
Click to expand...

In my case, John, Tides have a special part number for our installation.
I think the difference between our special part and the standard is the mounting for the shaft brushes.
Maybe they had a special part for the P45 as well.
 
Probably Mike - but to avoid any possible confusion, I originally sent Tides a complete set of images showing the existing seal and brush arrangement and also the Tides Seal Serial number. It was crystal clear what was required.

They then confirmed the factory had sent me the wrong seals, I discussed the brush kits which would also not fit, as clearly shown in the images, they then asked for some dims of the earth bar rod, so I paid Ricci to rush over to take them.

They then said they wanted another £120 to send out the two correct seal and brush kits. I having already having paid them £1,530 and incurring £145 expenses myself due to their error, I found that totally unreasonable. I even offered to meet the cost to return their incorrect seals, I though that reasonable.

I expressed (happy to print email - not aggressively) how very disappointed I was, but they called back and simply said return the seals, no small gesture or attempt to satisfy their customer whatsoever for their error. So that's precisely what I shall do.

Glad others have faired better with Tides.... looks like its back to PSS for me! Will post them back first class tomorrow!
 
I am told the dripping from the spare lip seal, recently fitted whilst afloat, has almost stopped; the boat is going ashore in 10 days time, so I may just split the seal and whilst on the dry, clean the shaft with some 300 grit or emery cloth and see if it would benefit from moving slightly, then I shall fit two new PSS next year, before any long trip. I'll check the cutlass bearings again this time whilst out.

She has 1-3/4" shaft and 3" stern tube (PSS is
£556.99​
and in stock at ASAP Supplies) not shopped around yet, will try Norris, anyone know of others that might supply them?

Very disappointed indeed with Tides Marine - no attempt or gesture whatsoever to satisfy a customer after their initial mistake. Instead of making some profit, they will now make a loss, covering the cost of sending and the return postage and packaging. I suppose its a case of a Company that has a good enough product and is making enough money, so as not to care about small orders, sad really.
 
Well to end the saga: Tides to their credit did arrange for a prompt and full refund and we just had local engineers 'Cornet' fit two new shaft seals, completed today, so assuming all goes well on the morrow when relaunched at 1600 hours, all now done and dusted....

I spoke to the engineers and cutlass bearings all in very good order.

If you don't get an update in 48 hours, please send divers between SCM boatyard and 'Z' Pontoon as soon as possible :-) .....
 
All back on berth: Cornet our local marine engineers did an excellent job, two engineers arrived yesterday at 0830, lunch at 1pm, returned just after 3pm and completed by 5pm. The same engineer arrived just after 4pm today just as we were dropped back in, they held us in slings whilst we checked the seals, he opened the hoses to check injection water flows and all perfect. Whilst ashore we had them check the cutlass bearings and all in good shape.

Looking forward to a run early next year, after two full the engine services.....!

The dockmasters in SCM and all MDL staff have been really helpful, which is very much appreciated, back to UK with SWMBO tomorrow! :encouragement:
 
Bandit said:
Like all jobs with the correct tools and experience its easy.

With cutless bearing pullers the P brackets can be done in situ with the prop off.

To do the upper bearing the shaft needs to be drawn.

The shaft seal is of indeterminate age (possibly original) and so is the spare.

My assumption is that the OP wants to keep the boat for 5 years or more and wants to future proof any work he does.

The other thing I forgot was that when the prop is refitted inspect the key and keyway carefully for any corrosion or movement of the prop on the key, if necessary replace the key.

Boat builders do not normally bed the props to the shaft using an abrasive paste, ie put paste on the shaft and without the key in place rotate the prop backwards and forwards to remove any high spots in the bore of the prop, when completed clean prop and shaft and use engineering blue to see whether the prop fits correctly on the taper.

Inspect the shaft carefully for wear and any damage, if felt necessary spin the shaft in a lathe to check truth, especially the taper.

This is worthwhile doing to ensure the prop fits correctly to the shaft and there are no high spots.

When refitting the coupling use all new Nylock bolts.

TBH this is a big job, probably best left to a well equipped contractor or boatyard. Do not allow them to "drift" the props off using lump hammers, this is bad practice.

Clean shaft and prop with brick cleaner and rinse off thoroughly.

When I bought my boat that was 7 years old the first thing I did was to replace stern seals and all cutless bearings, the first winter i replaced all skin fittings and valves.

The other thing for the OP is depending on info from previous owner is to carefully inspect all skin fittings and valves, depending on condition and known age replace all poor condition units and anything over 7 years old with new DZR units.

I work in a boatyard, mainly motorboats and we do shaft, cutless bearing work, engine alignment, sternseals all the time.
Click to expand...


I’m pleased John has sorted the shaft seal issue, but have also very much appreciated Bandit’s responses/input to this thread, some excellent info :encouragement:
 
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