ICC PB2 IN GREECE

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Greek Goddess

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I own a small greek registered motorboat. I hold the ICC PB2. I was recently stopped by the greek coastguard near Kalamata and was informed that the licence was not recognised in Greece. I had to sign a statement to that fact, sign another statement that I had made a mistake and now I await a decision as to my fate (a fine). All without legal representation and an interpreter. I have been told not to use my boat. Has anyone out there had any issues with the ICC PB2 in greek waters? The greek coastguard inform me that they do not recognise the RYA in terms of motor boat licences and want to see an official translation of said licence (not the one on the rya website) and a letter from a UK govt body which states that the RYA are authorised to issue said licence. Can anyone help?? Thank you!!
 
For clarity did you convert your PB2 to an ICC as a PB2 is not an ICC AFAIK. This was offered to me as an option on completing the PB2 at the time I think for a small admin fee
 
Ok, first of all, what sort of boat and what HP engine have you? In Greek waters you do not need any certificate to use 30hp or under on a solid hull, or in the case of a rib, 15hp, tourists can hire these boats without any qualifications, If a Greek wants to use a bigger engine, he has to have a speedboat licence, I had a Greek registered small boat, no problems because the engine was less than 30hp, I also had a 22ft Brit registered boat, with 140hp, i insured this with a Greek broker, they asked to see my ICC, they photo copied it, it was accepted without any problem, my ICC has also been accepted when hiring a rib with 150hp, and when chartering a yacht.
 
Davy_S said:
Ok, first of all, what sort of boat and what HP engine have you? In Greek waters you do not need any certificate to use 30hp or under on a solid hull, or in the case of a rib, 15hp, tourists can hire these boats without any qualifications, If a Greek wants to use a bigger engine, he has to have a speedboat licence, I had a Greek registered small boat, no problems because the engine was less than 30hp, I also had a 22ft Brit registered boat, with 140hp, i insured this with a Greek broker, they asked to see my ICC, they photo copied it, it was accepted without any problem, my ICC has also been accepted when hiring a rib with 150hp, and when chartering a yacht.
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Hi Davy. The boat is a 7.5 metre rib with a 200 hp engine.
 
This all seems a bit odd, I presume as you have an ICC that you are British?
Do you live in Greece or the UK?
How did you manage to register the boat on the Greek register, you have to answer lots of questions to the Port Police, including proof of ownership, that the engine fitted is also registered on the boat papers, you are also shown a list of all equipment you are supposed to carry, did they ask you for any proof of competence?
My boat was Greek registered because i lived there, my other Brit boat was SSR registered but had Greek insurance, it is possible that the Greeks want you to complete a Greek speedboat test, an Italian friend of mine had to do that when he fitted a bigger engine!
Remember, you can legally use 15hp on a rib, you have 200hp! surely something would have been mentioned when you registered it.
 
Hi greek goddess,
I ran into the same problem today. How have you solved this.
is it clear to you which UK body i should contact to obtain this statement that the RYA can issue the icc?
thanx for any advice you can give!
 
Hello Teun. Well I must say I am relieved that I’m not the only one who is also in this position. I have been in contact with the RYA and informed them that the greek law is correct - the Power Boat ICC is not valid unless the Certificate has been officially translated (mine was and court approved) and then certified by either the Ambassador or the Consul (well that’s not going to happen) or the government department which authorised the RYA to issue the licence. The UK Coastguard did send an email, but the Hellenic Coastguard in Athens disregarded it as it was addressed to ‘To Whom in Many Concern’ and was in english (obvs). The main issue is that the boat insurance is now invalid. I have stressed the importance of this to the RYA. They say they are working on it. Independently, I have now had the licence Apostilled and my greek lawyer has bypassed the Coast Guard and gone straight to the Ministry of Transport which encompasses the Coast Guard. I await their response. Failing that and the RYA to seek a resolution with the Greek government I will simply have to take the test in Greece I think, although it may be costly - I quoted 1,500 Euros as I will require an official translator. The world has gone mad. Perhaps you could get in touch with Carol Paddison in Cruising at the RYA to explain your situation. Where were you when you were stopped? I’ve been fined 80 Euros and advised not to use the boat by my lawyer and insurer. I did say to the RYA that this shouldn’t be my battle. Let’s see .... keep in touch.
 
I have posted this before , but until now it’s fallen on deaf ears .Its all about “ comity “ or the GR not conferring comity as you all are not “ Transient “
Being blurting on about this for years to Med boaters on here enquiring what qualification to do .
I have always given a choice recconend do the local one which is what I did within the EU .

GR are within the law to insist you comply with what ever local rules which inc qualification(s if you are not transient.

Its currently over looked at the mo in the EU , but your ( what ever flagged boat ) stays effectively permanently, more than 6 months then by the book they can now insist you follow local rules , so no change per se after 1/1/21 , just a question if a cattle prod from Brussels comes down forcing the EP , FR or what ever to apply it .
You can see why waaaaay back in 2005 I did the French permit d Mer .Already had the RYA tickets btw , this was as well as ,not instead of - because at the time the boat is / was not transient in the Cote d Azur .

The rag on the back stuck to a pole is irrelevant.

Greece is perfectly within its rights to impose its own rules on foreign flagged boats that are based in its waters.

This “ British flag = British rules “ debate regularly crops up. I think you need to read Uncloss 11 and other international agreements. The coastal State can impose whatever conditions it wants on vessels NOT on innocent passage. Portugal for instance requires pleasure craft there for more that 6 months to carry the same safety equipment as Portuguese registered ones although unlike a few years ago Portugal where foreign flagged boats that are deemed resident are required to comply with local rules on equipment. New Zealand also applies local rules to foreign boats that are resident, although like Portugal it exempts genuine visitors or boats on "innocent passage".

Innocent passage is an important concept in international law as that is when coastal states apply the principle of "comity" and respect the state flags rules. However once a boat starts cruising within the waters of the coastal state, and that time exceeds 6 months then “innocent passage “no longer applies and with it comity, although in practice most states do extend comity, at least for private leisure craft. That’s the current position within the Med, well was until GR are doing it by the book .


Sorry if it’s not the msg you want to read , but the RYA have zero chance of help .
GR are correct under international law .
 
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As far as iam aware within the EU you sit the examine in the states language but are allowed a translated paper with the approval of the examining authority. The translated paper is not a certainty its a concession.
You have to find out which centre / school which does the concession .
Additionally as the OPs says another concession is a translator .

Thats what I did with the French ,
If there is demand ( needs lead time to set up ) then bilingual schools will establish .Theses work if the authority gives the translated paper concession .The tutor acts as the translator for the group in the exam hall .You put your hand up .
You get both papers to read and mark the states own .Usually a MCQ so just crosses in boxes .
But worth learning basic boat terminology in the state Language like Port / Starboard , bow , stern , mast , anchor etc because you might have to label pictures or read diagrams.

So what the RYA need to do when they stop running round like a headless chicken is work on the examination authorities giving the translation concession .

This is on top of any practice on the water test .
 
Thanks for all your comments,

greek goddess, as i'm not a native english speaker i have to ask for clarification:
What is an apostille? And how did you obtain it?
My situation is a bit different from yours, as i dont have my own boat, so iḿ told i cannot drive a power boat in greek waters with this license. Indeed, if i would get it translated and certified by the UK government they say i'm allowed to.
Does your apostille solve this problem?
Or is your boat OK to be driven by an other person with the right papers?

I've contacted the 'get documents legalised'service and am about to email the maritime and goastguard agency.
I'll keep you posted on any developments
 
My Italian friend took his Greek speedboat test at Argostoly, Kefalonia, he brought a Greek friend who translated for him, the test was not difficult.
I still cannot understand how you managed to register a rib with 200hp on the Greek register using an ICC, you have not explained this, i would be very interested!
you could hire one whilst on holiday using the correct ICC, many people do, but to own a Greek registered rib and hope to use an ICC is different.
 
Davy, slightly confused, but I think you can register whatever you wish to whomever you wish, no certificate is asked. You just cannot use it unless you have the right "licence"
 
vas said:
Davy, slightly confused, but I think you can register whatever you wish to whomever you wish, no certificate is asked. You just cannot use it unless you have the right "licence"
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Vas, that is what i meant, although i worded it badly, the OP cannot expect to own and use a Greek registered rib with 200hp on a Brit ICC, if the rib had 15hp, he would have been legal to use it, just like a tourist hiring a dayboat, as far as i can see, he will have to take the Greek license test.
 
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The Greeks, don't you just love them, almost all avoid/evade paying taxes and yet a perfectly competent skipper, able to navigate his boat through their waters with an ICC, might be fined. Well, I suppose someone has to pay their tax bills.........!
 
Final quarter for this years of the loan / debt/ bailout call it what you want repayment to Germany ( ECB but all know who really calls the shots ) is end of Dec .
Does not bode well for the other members of PIGS , the G being Greece .
Lets hope the P , I and S for those with ICC only don’ t follow the letter of maritime law with those not transient. Ie copy GR .
Guess it depends how they are fixed , or if short prepared to default ?


Heard somewhere the bailout was a bit more than a simple loan transaction the Germans sent there people to “ guide “ the GR treasury and demand timely spreadsheets on monies spent and monies coming in .
But wouldn’t you do that if it was your dough ?
Conjecture but Berlin might be behind this.Its in there interest .
From a GR pov it’s something to show D .

My initial fear as I have said before was some sort of switched flicked in Brussels if the UK leaves with no deal .
Lets face it they have farted around with curvature of bananas so “ harmonising “ civy boat licences is not imho out side there scope and reach .Problem is -if UK is out then the RYA stuff is out too.
The “ we are not rule makers any more “ argument of remain .

So we are back to doing a qualification somewhere in the EU , which is accepted by all remaining 27 .
So a French one is Ok in GR and visa versa .If that happens then they can stop turning a blind eye to extended comity after 6 months .For EU waters of course .

As I said without any harmonisation it’s back to the current 6 months comity , for all 27 if they are not in there own waters .
A blind eye at the mo except GR for those exceeding 6 months .
 
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