ICC - Do you really need it?

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Playtime

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Has anyone ever been asked to show an ICC? Officially it is recommended for non UK waters and, I understand, legally required for (non UK) inland waterways.
Although I have been sailing for 40 years and have cruised extensively from Dieppe to La Rochelle, I have never undertaken a practical sailing course and don't have an ICC. Should I get one, especially if I want to venture 'inland' in France /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif?
 
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Should I get one, especially if I want to venture 'inland' in France /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif?

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That depends on wheteher you want a load of hassle and cost from the Frenchie boys in blue should they stop you and ask to see it! For inland, your ICC will also need the CEVNI endorsement.

Your call...........
 
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Has anyone ever been asked to show an ICC?

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The possibilities of trouble are understood but how real is the threat? Back to my original question above.

JollyRoger
 
Suggest you read the guidance on the RYA website and particularly the summary article on pages 17-19 of the members magazine autumn 2008 edition. If you are boating in countries which have signed up to UN resolutions 14 or 40, then you will need it. If you navigate inland waterways in such countries you will need to take the CEVNI test and have your ICC endorsed for inland waterways. France is one of those countries, but for inland only, not coastal waters. If you intend going to countries which require evidence of competence, for example if you want to charter a Greek registered boat, the ICC is sufficient as is an RYA certificate, usually Yachtmaster, but a Day Skipper may also be acceptable.

You can get an ICC by examination. You do not need an RYA Certificate, but it does come with Day Skipper and above.

And, yes I have been asked for my "licence" and the ICC is acceptable.

Hope this helps.
 
Hard to answer your question, in a way. I have one and have never been required to show it (but I have had it with my papers). We have been 'foreign' all the time since 2005, in the Western Med. We've never been boarded -- though several times we've been 'eyeballed' at 0300 in the vicinity of Cabo de Gata by the Coastguard. We've done a lot of cruising in the Channel Islands and Brittany. Again, nobody has asked. Went up to Caen (not designated as an Inland Waterway, oddly, so no CEVNI needed).

On the other hand, would I be without it? No.

If you are an experienced yachtsman you can just take the exam on your boat....show your log book, answer some fairly easy questions and demonstrate very basic sailing skills. I paid £50 to the examiner plus the RYA ransom which was almost as much as the poor examiner earned for the whole morning.

I think that legally you don't need it. If you are going foreign it makes sense and it is also something you could use after an accident to show that you have some quals. "Ah, JollyRoger by name and JollyRoger by nature, eh? Exactly what training and qualifications do you possess to be in command of this ocean-going vessel?". They could make it sound bad even though it isn't. So go for it. Mine was fun, if that's any consolation.
 
Do you need an ICC - If it makes you feel good
Do you have to have an ICC to visit French coastal ports - NO
Do you have to have an ICC to navigate French inland waters - YES if the inland waters are controlled by VNF. You MUST also have a CEVNI endorsement.
- If the inland waters are not controlled by VNF (Rance and Vilaine + Seine up to Rouen) NO

Hope that helps.
I will hunker down now for those that want to argue the toss.
 
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Has anyone ever been asked to show an ICC?

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I have only been asked to present a certificate of competence in Croatia when declaring into the country at the entry port's harbour office - it is mandatory there. If you don't have one the whole mercenary procedures click into gear.

One year I watched as another arrival who did not have one was told he would have to have a practical examination on his own boat by the harbour master - for a fee - and as neither had a common language the skipper would have to pay an extra charge for a translator to accompany them. In the end a translator could not be found and the sham exam went ahead with the harbour master's assistant suddenly finding enough English to communicate.

I admit that this was quite a few years ago but it was enough to impress upon me that something is needed.
 
I have been asked to present mine three times. Twice last year, in Greece. Prior to that was in 2005, in France. One of the Greek ones was in Preveza port office, which always seems to be more officious than most. I forget where the second was, probably Mourtos, I think. The French one was at a marina office.

As with so many of these documents I find that individual officials have their own preferences. Although the majority ask for 'ship's papers' by which they mean the transit log (in Greece) and registration document, the odd one will ask for one or all of passports, insurance, ICC. The one I have never been asked for is VAT paid evidence, despite having been boarded by customs.

Best policy by far is to have everything required by law, plus supporting documentation if appropriate, in one folder which is always taken to the port office.
 
As Tranona says pages 17 - 19 of RYA mag Autumn edition has good article about this.

One point though - Resolution 14 is sufficiently different to the later Resolution 40 that for example Latvia (Res. 14 signatory) does not require CEVNI and has own licencing that is only valid to 3nm offshore. ICC is technically not recognised but accepted. If they would sign Res. 40 - then they would enact CEVNI and ICC system as others.
When I have been involved with regattas into Latvia, and when I had a boat in Estonia - licence and docs was required to be shown each time visited by authorities. Now that Baltic states are Schengen - you don't see authorities very often !
 
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If you are boating in countries which have signed up to UN resolutions 14 or 40, then you will need it.

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Britain is signed up to 40, and I'm pretty sure ICCs are not required in the uk.

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If you navigate inland waterways in such countries you will need to take the CEVNI test and have your ICC endorsed for inland waterways.

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Unless you hire a boat inland locally in which case it will be exempt (but you need to check!).

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If you intend going to countries which require evidence of competence, for example if you want to charter a Greek registered boat, the ICC is sufficient as is an RYA certificate, usually Yachtmaster, but a Day Skipper may also be acceptable.

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I bare charter in Greece with no qualifications of any kind - I know plenty of other people who do. You don't need any formal qualifications at all.

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Hope this helps.

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If it was accurate it might.
 
Can someone provide an external link to a list of countries that require ICC? Not fiction or wordy guesswork - a solid link to a reliable source.

RYA site doesn't provide this information and google is no help at all. (Or maybe my searching is poor.)
 
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Can someone provide an external link to a list of countries that require ICC? Not fiction or wordy guesswork - a solid link to a reliable source.

RYA site doesn't provide this information and google is no help at all. (Or maybe my searching is poor.)

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Number of countries = zero
Link - http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga07-home...regulations.htm
 
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Can someone provide an external link to a list of countries that require ICC? Not fiction or wordy guesswork - a solid link to a reliable source.

RYA site doesn't provide this information and google is no help at all. (Or maybe my searching is poor.)

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Answer to that is as Lemain says : Zero.

Why ? The ICC as we think of is the UK interpretation of a document that satisfies Resolution 14 / 40, other countries have their own interpretation to cover the same. Therefore you have to refer to the specifications contained within both Resolution 14 (those countries that have not ratified Resolution 40) and Resolution 40. If a country such as UK decides to ratify Resolution 40, it does not mean it HAS to have licence such as ICC for it's own waters.

You also have to be aware of the name of the Resolution - 40 for example is :

Resolution No. 40 of the working party on Inland Water Transport United Nations Economic Commission for Europe.

It is now obvious from it's title that it's principle intention is to formalise inland waters certification, with secondary coastal.

If it wasn't for copyright - I would post a copy of the RYA pages relevant to this thread.
 
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zero
Link - http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga07-home...regulations.htm

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Thanks, I suspected so.

I'm sick of people making up detailed and elaborate legislation off the top of their heads. The French fixed penalty scheme for failure to produce an original registration document was a classic - I spend 45 minutes trying to find it - turns out it doesn't exist, or if it does nobody knows about it. Complete fiction. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
It is sometimes irrelevant what the international or your own registration country's regulations are, a bloody-minded and ignorant functionary in a harbour office can ruin your day.

Croatian regulations are very clear - the authorities have mandated that you need a formal licence whatever your ship's country of registration, or your nationality, is or they will force an examination on you. See here
 
This has been covered in the thread. If you are going to spend time in another country's waters then you may need to comply with local legislation. Passing through, you really should not have to do that. Inland and congested or controlled waterways can have special rules.

One of the reasons we won't go to Croatia and certain other places in the Eastern Med is the rulebooks. When the rulebooks are big you can be sure that you don't comply with something. That gives the local authorities the excuse to investigate, detain, tax, fine and otherwise harass you. Not for us. Even Spain, which is coming in for a lot of stick about boat registration and taxes, has never, AFAIK, been difficult about quals or equipment on British yachts.
 
Why do so many people on this forum ignore the question? "Has anyone ever been asked etc..."
Anyone can pontificate on their interpretation of what they believe the RULES to be, including the originator of the thread.
He is asking how many of us have ACTUALLY BEEN REQUESTED TO SHOW OUR ICC.
Put me down for a never - UK - Portugal - Spain 6years.
 
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