I think this is disgusting from a fellow boater

[SolentPhill]

I'm not into the us and them, I don't notice the raggie v mobo issue at a Marina, we don't have any but when I visit other marinas they are always nice..

But when I read articles like this it does make me wonder why I use my diesel to go around them, and don't just stay on my course and as long as I don't break rules then what the hell
Quote from SB section.

So putting aside all this noise about Belgium etc, do we really think it is morally right for users of pleasure boats to get cheaper diesel fuel than drivers of diesel cars - for many of whom diesel may be a necessity rather than a luxury (eg school teachers and nurses travelling to work in places with limited public transport)?

IMHO the RYA made a mistake lobbying to keep red diesel, and it would be better if boat fuel was at road prices. For me this would imopact my annual sailing costs by less than 1%, but clearly more for gas guzzlers, which seems fair.

So lets start the campaign to end red diesel - and all this 80/20 nonsense

To make it clear this is not me talking

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305457

 

[Captain Daz]

you are correct, deplorable behaviour.

 

[jfm]

He's entitled to his opinion though isn't he? There's a difference between a view you disagree with and "disgusting"/"deplorable"

 

[Captain Daz]

He's entitled to his opinion though isn't he? There's a difference between a view you disagree with and "disgusting"/"deplorable"

Am I not entitled to my opinion then?

 

[SolentPhill]

He's entitled to his opinion though isn't he? There's a difference between a view you disagree with and "disgusting"/"deplorable"

I agree he is entitled to his opinion but to start a campaign against "us". This is classic I'm alright jack. Surely boaters should stick together and form solidarity not fight within, regardless of the boat we have.

I don't go to France so the new rule red diesel in uk waters doesn't effect me, I know it would effect yachts more but I would support them in a petition or something, as they are fellow boaters and we share a common enjoyment of the sea.

 

[MapisM]

do we really think it is morally right for users of pleasure boats to get cheaper diesel fuel than drivers of diesel cars - for many of whom diesel may be a necessity rather than a luxury (eg school teachers and nurses travelling to work in places with limited public transport)?

Ermm... And what do you think is wrong in this statement, exactly?
The fact that, as a consequence, boaters might have to spend a tad more for their hobby doesn't seem to me a good reason against the validity of such viewpoint.

 

[Captain Daz]

Ermm... And what do you think is wrong in this statement, exactly?
The fact that, as a consequence, boaters might have to spend a tad more for their hobby doesn't seem to me a good reason against the validity of such viewpoint.

Motor Boats are not cars, so why compare the two? They are a bit like cars, in that they have an engine and move.

Similarly, some boats are a bit like houses in that they have a roof and beds in them, should they pay stamp duty?

 

[Prospect and Sunray]

Motor Boats are not cars, so why compare the two? They are a bit like cars, in that they have an engine and move.

Similarly, some boats are a bit like houses in that they have a roof and beds in them, should they pay stamp duty?

Or council tax??

 

[SolentPhill]

Ermm... And what do you think is wrong in this statement, exactly?
The fact that, as a consequence, boaters might have to spend a tad more for their hobby doesn't seem to me a good reason against the validity of such viewpoint.

First of all there could be an argument there to say the condition of the roads, they need to be maintained, they need lights in places, built in places and I'm sure there are a few more costs on keeping roads going. The tax from fuel helps to keep this going, or it should.

What does the govt do with tax from fuel from boaters, help with the crab pots? Pay for RNLI? Keep the sea clear of debris? No, nothing they just take. The sea doesn't cost them I would be happy to contribute a bit more tax if they did something constructive with the money.

It's the last line I find offensive anyway.

 

[Captain Daz]

To be honest, we pay so much tax in this country I am astounded that anyone would even suggest that we should pay more.

 

[henryf]

As posted on the other thread I wonder how he will respond to my suggestion of an annual licence of a couple of grand per craft to cover navigational marks and the rescue service ? After all a sailing yacht will use the facilities just as much as a motor yacht.

Henry

 

[MapisM]

Motor Boats are not cars, so why compare the two?

In fact, it's the very same product - diesel - which is being compared.
Mind, I would vote in favour of giving diesel for free to boaters, if given a chance.
As we all would, I reckon. Btw, I know quite a few raggies, and I'm sure their vote wouldn't be different, in spite of the lower burn.
But this doesn't mean that we should make up ridiculous excuses to justify a privilege which has no logic at all, if we want to be taken seriously.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I'm not into the us and them, I don't notice the raggie v mobo issue at a Marina, we don't have any but when I visit other marinas they are always nice..

But when I read articles like this it does make me wonder why I use my diesel to go around them, and don't just stay on my course and as long as I don't break rules then what the hell
Quote from SB section.

So putting aside all this noise about Belgium etc, do we really think it is morally right for users of pleasure boats to get cheaper diesel fuel than drivers of diesel cars - for many of whom diesel may be a necessity rather than a luxury (eg school teachers and nurses travelling to work in places with limited public transport)?

IMHO the RYA made a mistake lobbying to keep red diesel, and it would be better if boat fuel was at road prices. For me this would imopact my annual sailing costs by less than 1%, but clearly more for gas guzzlers, which seems fair.

So lets start the campaign to end red diesel - and all this 80/20 nonsense



http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305457

So presumably you will also be campaigning to increase the VAT on sailing yachts as they are clearly leisure items and not for essential things like getting to work. You will also want to increase the rates at your marina because it's clearly a leisure establishment unlike someone's primary residence. You will also presumably campaign for all cars to have two tanks - one for a higher tax/duty rate white petrol or diesel, which will be used when the car is used for leisure purposes and one for a lower tax/duty rate red petrol or diesel which should be used when the car is used for getting to and from work?

Will you be campaigning for an increased tax on your sails (which are an oil-based product probably) as these are for leisure use? What about angling - after all there's oil used in the manufacture of a fishing rod and I can't see where duty is paid on the used there - lets increase the tax on them. What about lorries and vans that are carrying leisure goods? Where do you stop - is your assumption is that it's morally wrong for for any leisure activity to benefit from a different tax or duty level?

I cannot understand why you even raise a moral issue? Firstly why do you select schoolteachers and nurses? Don't steelworkers, shopkeepers, shipwrights, fishermen, artists, etc. need to get to work? Secondly what has what they pay got to do with what I pay? You might as well ask why should a schoolteacher or nurse who chooses to live in a much cheaper and more isolated property enjoy the benefits of lower taxed fuel to get to work while his or her colleagues in more expensive well-served locations have to put up with paying public transport?

Morals have absolutely nothing to do with this at all. The situation was working perfectly well until politicians interfered. Now we have confusion, potentially unnecessary pollution and waste of fuel and an increased cost to all parties. Quite a remarkable achievement. If you want to campaign for anything then campaign for the politicians to do the job they're supposed to.

Incidentally what is this 80/20 thing? Do you mean 60/40?

 

[ian38_39]

Much as i feel for UK diesel motor boat users I do smile when the all stick together card gets played.

As a petrol boat owner i once asked the question is it fair that I pay full road duty on my fuel when diesel boats can get reduced rate fuel for their engines.

Almost universally I was told to buy a boat with discounted fuel and asked why I would expect any assistance from anyone when i bought a boat that ran on petrol knowing that there would be no tax rebate.

I bought my boat nearly 4 years ago just after it was announced that red diesel was going, i can't help wondering how many of the people moaning now have bought a boat in the last 4 years since the derogation was lost and the move to white became obvious. The only surprising thing is how long discounted fuel has lasted, make no mistake, red diesel will be gone soon even for use in UK waters.

Must go now. Busy planning my trip tp Belgium this year.

 

[Captain Daz]

In fact, it's the very same product - diesel - which is being compared.
Mind, I would vote in favour of giving diesel for free to boaters, if given a chance.
As we all would, I reckon. Btw, I know quite a few raggies, and I'm sure their vote wouldn't be different, in spite of the lower burn.
But this doesn't mean that we should make up ridiculous excuses to justify a privilege which has no logic at all, if we want to be taken seriously.

It is the tax on diesel that is being discussed, not diesel itself.

It is taxed highly because it is a ROAD fuel, motor boats do not go on the road so why should they pay the tax levied on road fuel?

And what excuses are ridiculous? It would take a good argument to convince me that the taxes we are made to pay, for petrol etc, are not ridiculous.

We are so used to paying tax in this country that we actually have been brainwashed to believe that we are 'subsidised' or 'getting away with it' if we are not paying an outrageous fee to buy something.

 

[Captain Daz]

Much as i feel for UK diesel motor boat users I do smile when the all stick together card gets played.

As a petrol boat owner i once asked the question is it fair that I pay full road duty on my fuel when diesel boats can get reduced rate fuel for their engines.

Almost universally I was told to buy a boat with discounted fuel and asked why I would expect any assistance from anyone when i bought a boat that ran on petrol knowing that there would be no tax rebate.

I bought my boat nearly 4 years ago just after it was announced that red diesel was going, i can't help wondering how many of the people moaning now have bought a boat in the last 4 years since the derogation was lost and the move to white became obvious. The only surprising thing is how long discounted fuel has lasted, make no mistake, red diesel will be gone soon even for use in UK waters.

Must go now. Busy planning my trip tp Belgium this year.

I do not even have a boat, so am sticking together with no-one. What I do not understand, and this applies to all life not just diesel boats, is why someone would want to go about spoiling a benefit that someone else has when it has no effect on their life whatsoever.

My friend complained, at his work, that somebody less experienced than him earned the same. The boss cut the other man's wage by two pounds an hour and my friend was happy with that.

THIS is the bit I do not understand.

 

[oceanfroggie]

Z z z z . . .

 

[SolentPhill]

So presumably you will also be campaigning to increase the VAT on sailing yachts as they are clearly leisure items and not for essential things like getting to work. You will also want to increase the rates at your marina because it's clearly a leisure establishment unlike someone's primary residence. You will also presumably campaign for all cars to have two tanks - one for a higher tax/duty rate white petrol or diesel, which will be used when the car is used for leisure purposes and one for a lower tax/duty rate red petrol or diesel which should be used when the car is used for getting to and from work?

Will you be campaigning for an increased tax on your sails (which are an oil-based product probably) as these are for leisure use? What about angling - after all there's oil used in the manufacture of a fishing rod and I can't see where duty is paid on the used there - lets increase the tax on them. What about lorries and vans that are carrying leisure goods? Where do you stop - is your assumption is that it's morally wrong for for any leisure activity to benefit from a different tax or duty level?

I cannot understand why you even raise a moral issue? Firstly why do you select schoolteachers and nurses? Don't steelworkers, shopkeepers, shipwrights, fishermen, artists, etc. need to get to work? Secondly what has what they pay got to do with what I pay? You might as well ask why should a schoolteacher or nurse who chooses to live in a much cheaper and more isolated property enjoy the benefits of lower taxed fuel to get to work while his or her colleagues in more expensive well-served locations have to put up with paying public transport?

Morals have absolutely nothing to do with this at all. The situation was working perfectly well until politicians interfered. Now we have confusion, potentially unnecessary pollution and waste of fuel and an increased cost to all parties. Quite a remarkable achievement. If you want to campaign for anything then campaign for the politicians to do the job they're supposed to.

Incidentally what is this 80/20 thing? Do you mean 60/40?

who are you asking these questions to? dont shoot the messenger..

 

[kennythejoiner]

To be honest, we pay so much tax in this country I am astounded that anyone would even suggest that we should pay more.

Perhaps he is a secret Tory...

 

[sailorman]

I'm not into the us and them, I don't notice the raggie v mobo issue at a Marina, we don't have any but when I visit other marinas they are always nice..

But when I read articles like this it does make me wonder why I use my diesel to go around them, and don't just stay on my course and as long as I don't break rules then what the hell
Quote from SB section.

So putting aside all this noise about Belgium etc, do we really think it is morally right for users of pleasure boats to get cheaper diesel fuel than drivers of diesel cars - for many of whom diesel may be a necessity rather than a luxury (eg school teachers and nurses travelling to work in places with limited public transport)?

IMHO the RYA made a mistake lobbying to keep red diesel, and it would be better if boat fuel was at road prices. For me this would imopact my annual sailing costs by less than 1%, but clearly more for gas guzzlers, which seems fair.

So lets start the campaign to end red diesel - and all this 80/20 nonsense



http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305457

The standard split is 60/40.
this has been stated by HMRC as the benchmark no quibble split, if you want to declare a higher % for domestic use then be prepared to prove that fact if questioned later by HMRC