I Keep getting offers on my boat

[Firefly625]

You would probably be better off looking at private sales on places like ebay, rather than wasting your time dealing with brokers who can't be arsed to put a deal together. Unless a seller is desperate to sell, they really aren't going to drop their asking price by a huge amount, so find a "motivated seller" advert somewhere and give them some motivation to sell.

not necessarily, if there is a motivated seller out there, and a broker does his job by advising the seller that in order to sell his boat quickly he needs to price lower than the market value.... that is the boat to buy... But then we come back to the point, if the buyer then identifies this boat as a good buy, but insists on offering 30% less he still won't buy the thing..!

So simple answer, find a boat at an overinflated price and offer 30% less than the asking price and I guess he will think he's got a bargain...

At the end of the day some folk want to buy a deal..

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

But if you have made an offer 33% under a fair asking price he has seen you absolutely as you have portrayed yourself....as someone who clearly can't afford it.

Absolute and complete bollox. I have bought and sold 14 used boats through brokers and privately and if a broker acting on my behalf was in any way dismissive of an offer 33% under asking price, they wouldn't be acting for me anymore. The job of the broker is to try to move that offer closer to what is acceptable to the seller not to reject it out of hand. If the potential buyer won't budge, then fine, he should be thanked for his offer and told that on this occasion, the offer isn't acceptable. In any case, in the present climate, any buyer with funds available would be mad to start anywhere but well below the asking price.

 

[matt13]

A couple of weeks ago, I made an offer on two boats both exactly the same price, same model, exactly the same engine hours and the same year just different coloured hull. Each boat was roughly a 4 hour round trip in either direction and I had already looked at lots of boats and I knew this model quite well.

However I didnt fancy making the trip if my offer was deemed to be unacceptable, I didnt want to waste my time or the brokers time either so I rang them both up made an offer of 17% under the asking price expecting to be pushed up a little. The first broker I could tell thought I was a time waster and didnt even get back to me to say the offer had been refused. The second one did get back to me and worked hard to get a deal done and I ended up paying a litlle bit more but still less than I had actually thought I would end up paying.

The sea trial went well funds have gone through and I wil be picking the boat up in a week or two. Obviously the first seller didnt have to sell me his boat and may not have been in a rush to sell, or maybe his boat is overpriced or maybe the broker didnt even pass on my offer as he deemed it ridiculous, I dont know but he may have missed out on a deal.

I just wouldnt discount those people ringing up and making an offer because they may be more serious than you think.

 

[Wavey]

or maybe the broker didnt even pass on my offer as he deemed it ridiculous

I had an estate agent do this to me a couple of weeks ago so I see no reason why a yacht broker wouldn't do it.

Even a ridiculous offer should be passed to the vendor. It's up to him to decide whether it's acceptable or not.

 

[jonic]

Absolute and complete bollox. I have bought and sold 14 used boats through brokers and privately and if a broker acting on my behalf was in any way dismissive of an offer 33% under asking price, they wouldn't be acting for me anymore. The job of the broker is to try to move that offer closer to what is acceptable to the seller not to reject it out of hand. If the potential buyer won't budge, then fine, he should be thanked for his offer and told that on this occasion, the offer isn't acceptable. In any case, in the present climate, any buyer with funds available would be mad to start anywhere but well below the asking price.

You are wrong If you think I am dismissive.

Every seller will have a bottom line and he will have instructed his broker accordingly. This will vary from boat to boat and owner to owner. If the offer is so out of line it will go nowhere. Brokers get paid only on completion and believe me I will never pass an opportunity to put two diametrically opposed people together if it can be done. It is 100% in my interest to get a deal done.
There is no point at 33% under if you are getting offers between 5 and 10 %.

The offer I had of 33% under I put to the owner and his reply was "tell him to f*** off." I rang the chap with the offer and told him his offer had been politely declined but if he could get closer we could talk. I offered him three more boats and went through the merits of each and spent over half an hour on the phone with him. Then 15 mins writing it all up and entering him in the database then mailing him the details. So far he hasn't come back.

The owner doesn't want him back as he found it a ridiculously insulting offer. He doesn't need to sell and could store the boat for four years for about 8K rather than sell for a 25k loss.

 

[Greg2]

I had an estate agent do this to me a couple of weeks ago so I see no reason why a yacht broker wouldn't do it.

Even a ridiculous offer should be passed to the vendor. It's up to him to decide whether it's acceptable or not.

Yes, a Broker did the same to me on the basis that it was 'insulting' and we could achieve better. He was right inasmuch as we would do better (and did) but whilst I appreciate his motives there is no such thing as an 'insulting' offer and he should have passed it on for me to decide whether it was an avenue worth pursuing or not.

I can understand sellers being emotional about low offers but not Brokers - they should be professional and businesslike, which is the approach that jonic took in his example. The Broker in my case initially took a different approach and didn't filter the response from the vendor and as a consequence ran the risk of destroying any potential for my offer to increase.

 

[jonic]

I had an estate agent do this to me a couple of weeks ago so I see no reason why a yacht broker wouldn't do it.

Even a ridiculous offer should be passed to the vendor. It's up to him to decide whether it's acceptable or not.

You are all missing the point the offers have to be passed on but by the second or third refusal from the owner you know what they will say. I am regularly instructed not to bother the owner under a certain price.

Its interesting how upset people are getting because nobody is interested in their offers. Don't equate it to house buying or estate agency. The boats never inflated in price so there is no correction room as in a house price when it comes down.

You are asking for the owner to subsidise your boating by substantial amounts of real money that he paid previously for the boat. Unless he is in financial trouble don't be surprised that he is not interested in writing you a cheque for 33% of his boat. Try it on by all means but they will not be falling at your feet. I wish they would, then I could up my transaction levels.

 

[Greg2]

The owner doesn't want him back as he found it a ridiculously insulting offer. He doesn't need to sell and could store the boat for four years for about 8K rather than sell for a 25k loss.

But if he does then the gap is closed to 17k, which is likely to be even lower when inflation is taken into account and who knows what the market value would be then. It is obviously an option to store and probably not unreasonable to think a yacht would sell in that time but a mobo may not. Having been there I think that even as a seller it is a mistake to respond emotionally - rational and objective judgement is more likely to put you in a better position IMHO. Easier said than done of course

 

[gjgm]

Interesting as I am a buyer with funds availble and have also had a similar offer rejected today. I didn't portray myself as a 'cash buyer' but did make it known that I have money available and was serious (we had viewed the boat).

What I am unable to understand is the tone of the response from the broker. He was less than constructive and his e-mail came across as being a bit snotty. Now I would have thought that a professional broker would have done his best to keep us on side and to see if he could close the gap between our offer and what the seller wants to achieve but no, he didn't and instead will probably see a relativley rare buyer for a mobo going elsewhere.

Not bashing Brokers here and certainly not you jonic - just surprised at the response.

Or the broker actually got his message across rather well?
Stop wasting peoples time. And if you decide to stop wasting peoples time, you will have to make the effort and go back to the broker, bcz he isnt interested in spending more of his limited time on you when he has better opportunities to develop.
Actually, I think it polite of him to have even bothered to answer.

 

[DAKA]

Hi Jonic,

You are being very polite and patient as usual , in the main I agree with you however I feel you are misleading a few bargain hunters in one respect....


You said there may be a few bargains around say 30% off , however you fail to mention that these will be snapped up by the dealers well before the 'cash boy dreamers' get to hear about them.

The 'cash boy dreamers' will have to make do with the dregs, the ones with osmosis, dodgy engine, sunk n bodged, obscure make that no one wanted and went bust soon after etc

As always you make your choice and get whet you pay for.

Speaking from experience btw, my second boat was a bargain which turned out to have Osmosis (under 4 years old).

 

[jonic]

Hi Jonic,

You are being very polite and patient as usual , in the main I agree with you however I feel you are misleading a few bargain hunters in one respect....


You said there may be a few bargains around say 30% off , however you fail to mention that these will be snapped up by the dealers well before the 'cash boy dreamers' get to hear about them.

The 'cash boy dreamers' will have to make do with the dregs, the ones with osmosis, dodgy engine, sunk n bodged, obscure make that no one wanted and went bust soon after etc

As always you make your choice and get whet you pay for.

Speaking from experience btw, my second boat was a bargain which turned out to have Osmosis (under 4 years old).

Hello Daka and that is a valid point.

I should add I only sell sailing yachts and all my comments are based on that experience. The MOBO market and people involved may be different. I have never worked in that sector so don't know.

 

[Greg2]

Or the broker actually got his message across rather well?
Stop wasting peoples time. And if you decide to stop wasting peoples time, you will have to make the effort and go back to the broker, bcz he isnt interested in spending more of his limited time on you when he has better opportunities to develop.
Actually, I think it polite of him to have even bothered to answer.

Really? Wasting his time? Demonstrable interest in the boat (viewed twice) with money ready to spend and the only area of disagreement being price - doesn't sound like wasting his time to me - he is in business to sell boats and not responding certainly wouldn't achieve that. What might achieve it is genuine dialogue and both sides being prepared to compromise, then there might be a chance of a sale. Or maybe he should just ignore me while I look elsewhere, after all there will probably be another buyer along tomorrow.

 

[DAKA]

Really? Wasting his time? Demonstrable interest in the boat (viewed twice) with money ready to spend and the only area of disagreement being price - doesn't sound like wasting his time to me - he is in business to sell boats and not responding certainly wouldn't achieve that. What might achieve it is genuine dialogue and both sides being prepared to compromise, then there might be a chance of a sale. Or maybe he should just ignore me while I look elsewhere, after all there will probably be another buyer along tomorrow.

A buyer is someone who parts with money and is indeed valued in most businesses .

A customer who cant afford what he wants is just a pain in the arse who just adds unnecessarily to inflate running costs, sure in business you have to humour for a while but ultimately you cant deliver to the customer what he wants if he cant afford it.

 

[gjgm]

Really? Wasting his time? - doesn't sound like wasting his time to me - he is in business to sell boats and not responding certainly wouldn't achieve that. What might achieve it is genuine dialogue and both sides being prepared to compromise, then there might be a chance of a sale. Or maybe he should just ignore me while I look elsewhere, after all there will probably be another buyer along tomorrow.

You said it was a similar offer, which I take to mean a similar situation. That being the case, you deem the boat to be fairly priced (as OP), but you make a therefore unfair offer of 30pct below.
You might think that is a valuable use of broker and vendors time, but it seems they dont share your view.
"Demonstrable interest in the boat (viewed twice) with money ready to spend and the only area of disagreement being price".
Well,I guess its not often the difference is hair style.

 

[lovezoo]

A buyer is someone who parts with money and is indeed valued in most businesses .

A customer who cant afford what he wants is just a pain in the arse who just adds unnecessarily to inflate running costs, sure in business you have to humour for a while but ultimately you cant deliver to the customer what he wants if he cant afford it.

Surely though it takes no more effort to tell the customer who can't afford what he wants, "no thanks, the owner is looking for an offer much closer to the asking price, so please let me know what you can do" rather than just "f. off you TIMEWASTER".

Not as satisfying perhaps, but more likely to get a revised offer back.

 

[oldgit]

My two penny worth.

The difficulty in my experience when buying a boat is finding a seller who can afford or is able to sell you the boat you want at the price you want to pay and this can take some time.
There may be 10 boats on the market all around the same price and if they are in your price range you can haggle a bit and everyone comes away more or less happy,you can do your deal fast and off you go into the marine world of arm and a leg fuel costs/repairs/mooring/insurance and then come and spend 99% of your time here on the forum etc.

The problem comes when you have Mercedes taste but Lada money.
This is going to take more time and a little more acrimony because you have to find out which of those 10 owners is maybe able to sell his boat at your sort of price probably because he bought the boat for the right money in the first place ie. did not rush out with a blank chegue and pay the going rate for the object of his desire.
Many people will have to achieve a certain price merely to pay off the finance and will simply be unable to settle for less.
It is a buyers market and to some buyers a very low offer could be taken as a insult,
to others,somewhere to start bargaining.
Its just a case of patience
Still think its a good time to buy a boat,quite a few old boaters want out and some bargains are to be had.

 

[DAKA]

At risk of thread drift back to the thread ..........

Gotta give Boatshed credit.
I've received an email from them asking if I'd like anymore info on the Princess 35 because they've noticed I've looked at the advert once or twice.
I've never had that from any other broker and I think that's a big plus on their part.
Well done Boatshed.

its an automated thing, easy to do. They ask for your email address as a login so you can view photos...so then they've got you. I'm not saying it is not good, but other brokers could replicate if they all pulled their fingers out their backsides..

I wish we could ask for people's email addresses before they could view our stocklist... but in the market we deal in and the volume of choice out there in the market people would just go to someone else who would show them their stocklist without any tie-ins .. its more the type of thing Henryf could adopt..

Don't think it is automated actually. I have looked at quite a lot of boats on Boatshed and sometimes I have had an e- mail and sometimes not. The e- mails have varied in intent too....

I also got an email from Andy at Boatsheds asking if I would like more detail.
I responded to the effect I was just browsing and not currently in the market for a P35 adding that I thought the dinghy / oars /extended range oil drum photo wasnt my favourite.

I received an immediate response to the effect the photo was removed yesterday !

Andy at Boatshed is responding to me (a self confessed time waster in this instance), clearly working very hard for Haydn and I wish them both good luck with a sale soon.

Well done Andy @ Boatshed

 

[hlb]

Thanks Daka, I did ring Andy yesterday and asked him to look here. And also to remove the photo.

So far I have not come across a buyer that's prepared to negotiate at all, from there very low offers.

I even agreed to one offer, but he then said he wanted it in writing!!

 

[henryf]

What I am unable to understand is the tone of the response from the broker. He was less than constructive and his e-mail came across as being a bit snotty. Now I would have thought that a professional broker would have done his best to keep us on side and to see if he could close the gap between our offer and what the seller wants to achieve but no, he didn't and instead will probably see a relativley rare buyer for a mobo going elsewhere.

Not bashing Brokers here and certainly not you jonic - just surprised at the response.

One of two things has probably happened here.

The owner has set a base price which is far too high. In this case a good broker will find a way of acknowledging your offer as being fair whilst still representing their client.

The boat was well priced and you have been a bit rude with your offer.

30% off some boats makes them still too expensive, the asking price of other boats is a positive bargain.

As a buyer you need to understand and know your prices so you can be aware of just how cheeky your offer is. If you come in too low you do run the risk of not being taken seriously. There comes a point at which a dealer would buy the boat, no messing, no broker's fees, no having to clean it up and take lots of pretty photos.

It's exactly the same in the used Porsche world. I often hear people discussing a car's value and they are miles out. I would pay more as a dealer.

I have no knowledge of the boat you were looking at Greg nor it's true value unless it is either a Princess P42, P50 or P54

We had a chap come to look at a car the other day. A limited production car and quite desirable. Spent a few hours with him and his wife, took him out in a couple of different cars as he asked so he could see the differences. He talked of wanting an inspection if he was going to buy it. Acknowledged the car was superb and he couldn't fault it, then bid me £3k less than I'd paid for it !!! You might argue a grand here or there on some of our prices but had he have told me what he was going to offer, (and he knew before he even came to look at it), I could have saved him a journey and certainly wouldn't have had the lads running round making cups of Earl Grey tea, going out on test drives and so on on a busy Saturday. It can be testing at times.

Someone said you might have to wait a while before you find a vendor in a position to be able to sell a boat for what you want to pay. That will never happen when there are people out there prepared to pay more than you and I think we probably all need remembering that we are not the only ones with cash from time to time. I think the time for the bargain boat was a year or two ago.

I wish you all the best on your hunt and if necessary do the leg work yourself, don't wait for the broker to get back to you, chase them down and drive the deal if it's a boat you want.

Henry

 

[jonic]

I have taken all this to heart and have just got back from Tesco.

I bought the weekly shop and at the till, once I had the total, said "I'll give you 30% less. I have cash and have a genuine interest in the goods."

The checkout guy pointed out I had already qualified for the two for one offers that were clearly marked and would also be getting 5p off my petrol and points on my card. I pointed out that was all well and good but in the current climate would not be buying unless I got an incredible deal. in fact if he didn't discount as I demanded I would just walk away.

The checkout guy removed the goods from me and escorted me out.


I thought this rude and short sighted. How was he to know I didn't mean it?
I may well have done a deal at 25% off for all he knew, but he just couldn't be bothered to find out. If I was the manager I'd sack him.

I'm off to Asda and may pay up to 20% off now.

No doubt another shopper will be along soon for the lazy Tesco checkout guy.