I have a confession

iangrant

iangrant

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
3,272
Location
By the Sea
Visit site
My mate Tome sailed with us from Hayling Island to Plymouth, ok Via Cherbourg crossing the shipping lanes there and back 'cause the wind was from the south west!

At lunchtime Tome did a sun sight and went through the pro-forma for sextant navigation which worked a treat.

Anyway Tome jumps off in Plymouth and we set off for Vilamoura, Southern Portugal with the intention of doing the trip in one hop, and using the sextant.

The confession: we didn't use the sextant, not on that trip, or the 700 miles from Vilamoura to Las Palmas. (the lumpy bit at the bottom of Biscay could have given us a problem as the waves blocked out the sun now and again)

What did we use? The Garmin 12 "go to" button, steering to waypoints down to Portugal then on the second trip, one waypoint 5 miles NE of the Las Palmas breakwater. We did draw on the paper charts, steering the compass course but the good little 90 quid garmin was a fantastic tool showing distance eta and XTE.

We also had Navmaster on the laptop logging the passage and drawing pretty lines on the screen showing exactly where we were on the planet.. We plotted the GPS fix from the main GPS onto the chart.
We also kept a four hour ships log.
We did "go manual" entering Vilamoura and Las Palmas, using the hand help compass.

Did we cheat?

Ian
 
we kept a log, always do, if the gismo's failed we had a start point for sextant nav.. How would you have done it?

Also the nice man in Portugal insisted on seeing it to check where we'd come from..

If 'ought had gone wrong I'm sure the insurance company would want sight of it..

Ian
 
Sorry, forgot to add /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif to my last..

but seriously, I used to log everything, to the book, and more... but now, I find my navigation has honed down to a paper chart (assisted, but not essential, by the Yeoman plotter) and a Garmin 12 gps; so I was resonating with your posting... I have grown very lazy, I plot my position on the chart (rather than into a logbook) at intervals, depending on open sea vs inshore. I write up stuff like putting up sails, turning off engine, boat speed, reefing, change in weather, pressure etc, but my log is no longer position or time driven - in other words it is an information base for 'historical' reasons - the marked chart takes up the role of log in the more old-fashioned sense of time and position recording. If we had to bail out, we'd pick up the grab-bag which contains, among others, spare garmin and lithium batteries, plus the paper chart and I reckon I would be much better off than anyone using a chart-plotter and a meticulous old-fashioned log. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I would be interested in how other people log.

As to your original posting, in an area of low tidal conditions, sounds just right /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
If 'ought had gone wrong I'm sure the insurance company would want sight of it..

[/ QUOTE ]You used waterproof ink and kept it in a waterproof container attached to an EPIRB, then? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Totally agree, and would add that our logbooks, covering the last 35 years of sailing, are amongst our most prized possessions. Mind you, we keep a daily "Diary'' of what went on in the Log as well, so reading them is like 're-doing' the trips.

We keep an hourly log even when on ocean passages, though I'm sure many here would protest that it's over the top. Our view is that it takes only a couple of minutes to write down the info in the columns, and time is something we have plenty of offshore.

We plot on the chart roughly every 2-3 hours when Channel hopping, but every 24 hours (noon) on ocean trips.

'course, we don't have electronic charts or anything interfaced with anything else, so I suppose we're a bit old fashioned these days. Got absolutely no intention of 'upgrading' ourselves either!!
 
Legal requirement ....

This confuses me ...

I have looked through various and found reccomendations and advisories ... but no actual Law that says I have to keep a log ... unless of course my vessel is Commercial or over 500 GRT ...

I am not starting an argument - just asking please give me the url or site to read - so that I can comply ....

As regards Log-books .... I have always been against the loose-leaf ones available to yachts ... they may be nicely set-out - but no use to man nor beast when presented to a Marine Investigator .... (here I have to declare that I have been one !! ). Bound pages with indelible marks / text is the order of the day ... anything else is food for the bin ...

Let you all into a secret .... (little joke there !!) The most important document on a vessel is the one that is written at the time of the incident ... it can be a scrap of paper, a notebook, a deck-log etc. Whenever an incident occurs - the first things we call for are :

a) Chart in use at the time - to check position marks
b) Movement Book recording all orders / engine orders etc.
c) Log-Book - not official one but the watchkeepers log.
d) Skippers / Masters Night Order / Deck Orders Book
e) Who was on watch / what were their duties ... written and verbal
f) Watchkeepers notebooks or jottings ...
g) Scrap pads !!

Why the above list ... they are all connected with what happens at the time and not the official log-book which is written up after the event ... Now any Masters who are reading this will be now nodding their heads and know exactly what I mean ...

I have always stayed quiet about this matter but now feel its time to raise the matter ....

If you really want to be "clean and green" - write down everything ... but beware - with that comes responsibility for mistakes !!

Sorry to bring in a "too serious" note to this .... but it always niggles me this "legal requirement" bit .... as most often marine court decisions and abitration decide not on such "legal rqts", but on the evidence of action at the time ....
 
Ian ... you have done only the same as others ...

That includes commercial shipping. It took years to convince Commercial that electronic could provide position fixes ..... Decca etc. helped a lot in this ...

(In the former days ....) A commercial ship would use sights when outside Decca coverage and without radar fix / compass bearings etc. Once vessel entered an area with Loran or Decca coverage the sextants were boxed and forgotten - except for occasional vertical / horizontal sextant angles ....

That reminds me - who gave you your Sextant lessons in the end ?? My Texas Ti59 Nav calculator STILL works and will knock out sights all day long !!! (Marc St Helaire of course !!)
 
Re: Ian ... you have done only the same as others ...

Tome did a sterling job teaching us the rudiments of the sextant doing a noon sun sight. great fun.

Cheers

Ian
 
You ol\'sea dog you !! Are you at Cherbourg >>

This coming weekend ??

Must be hell away from the HR ..... me - I wouldn't have come back .....

Svet wants to see the big bed ... so when is she back in UK ???

Will it be in time for Strawberries at Folly again ?>?

Ok serious note now .... you know my e-mail etc. - sun sights ok ... what about the rest ??
AND for you lot out there - he's a good friend and a bloody good skipper ... so no smart replies please ...
 
Re: You ol\'sea dog you !! Are you at Cherbourg >>

Working on a pass for the weekend - sailing as crew with Tome on Amaya. If he b*ggers of to the Channel Isles I'll need to hitch a lift back with someone. Winging it with no passport - sent off for a new one!

Asterie will be back in UK next Easter, with time constraints and the temptation of an HR 49 means we'll probably ship here back from Antigua,


Cheers

ian
 
For you ... a place ....

Has the Post Office stopped doing the Paper passport for day-trippers to France etc. ????

If he does the dirty ... you hop on my old tub ... I have a spare place ....... Would be more than happy to have you on board ... (just please don't attract the ferries !!!!)

Marvelous .....
 
If you did cheat I guess most other Bug gers around today are also cheating. I even guess there are some out there that only know how to cheat....!!! the main thing is at least when all goes tits up which at times it surely will do you will be in a position to go back to basics. I say use every aid you can and enjoy.

Paul.
 
Re: Legal requirement ....

When I go to France I make sure I have what they want as dont fancy paying their stupid fines, doesnt mean I agree with them but easier to have what is required rather than pay a fine and argue for hours on end... Why worry - be happy - just do it.... Still going to Cherbourg then Nigel?
 
Too bloody right I am !!!!

But come on Steve read my post properly ............ I don't say don't do it etc. What I posted was based on my job as Marine Surveyor .....

What Authorities etc. do is THEIR interpretation ....
 
Re: Legal requirement ....

It can be a double-edged sword. For example, if you generally write in the logbook items like putting on lifejackets, then if you forgot/were unable to/were otherwise occupied on the occasion when the [--word removed--] hit the fan, then this could be used as evidence against you that you didn't in fact give the order. On balance, I would think that from the legal point of view it's probably safer not to keep a logbook.

Discuss.
 
Re: Legal requirement ....

Yes, the minute for instance that you institute rules, whether at work, in a boat club, wherever, you become liable for making sure those rules are maintained.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top