I hate to do this...but

Nostrodamus said:
I still need to buy a new anchor which I will do today.
In fairness to Manson and Rocna I wrote to both of them to see what assistance I would get.
For the Rocna I e mailed a well-known UK Chandelry who advertise the said anchor asking if they had a 33kg Rocna in stock and if not when would they have one in. I also asked if they would give me a written guarantee that the specifications and composition were as the Rocna web site. The reply was as follows
“Unfortunately we have sold out of 33kg Rocnas. The UK distributor for Rocna is Marine Factors. Their website http://www.marinefactors.co.uk/ has a list of stockists, so you may be able to track one down there.
On the subject of the specifications of the Rocnas, we have them delivered direct from the factory so we are happy to guarantee they are all made to Rocna’s strict standards. We are aware that there was a small batch from the start of last year (all now sold to the best of our knowledge) which were made of a lower grade of steel, but this is certainly not something you need to worry about if buying new.”

I also e mailed Manson asking what sized anchor I would need for my boat but I did not ask for a written guarantee. Their reply was as follows.

“Hi there ******, thanks for your email and consideration of our Supreme
Anchor.
I would be looking at a 45lb for general anchoring and coastal sailing but,
to be honest if you were going offshore and extended cruising and wanted a
bulletproof anchor then I would be looking at a 60lb Supreme. All Force Four chandleries have our anchors or can get them in or sell them online. Where are you located and I will forward your request to our local agent to sort the details for you on this”.

I am not going to comment on content of the replies as you can make your own mind up but there appears to be one company here which has faith in its product and wants to sell me an anchor and one which wants to send me elsewhere. Which would use choose?
Click to expand...

Perhaps someone should point out to them that the Venice failure was produced in December 2008/Jan 2009, not early last year as they are being told by SB.

The anchor that Delphin is currently having tested is a recently manufactured one , as is the Manson test subject.

Someone who trying to be the spindoctor in all this needs to get their dates and facts straight.
 
Nostrodamus said:
I still need to buy a new anchor which I will do today.
In fairness to Manson and Rocna I wrote to both of them to see what assistance I would get.
For the Rocna I e mailed a well-known UK Chandelry who advertise the said anchor asking if they had a 33kg Rocna in stock and if not when would they have one in. I also asked if they would give me a written guarantee that the specifications and composition were as the Rocna web site. The reply was as follows
“Unfortunately we have sold out of 33kg Rocnas. The UK distributor for Rocna is Marine Factors. Their website http://www.marinefactors.co.uk/ has a list of stockists, so you may be able to track one down there.
On the subject of the specifications of the Rocnas, we have them delivered direct from the factory so we are happy to guarantee they are all made to Rocna’s strict standards. We are aware that there was a small batch from the start of last year (all now sold to the best of our knowledge) which were made of a lower grade of steel, but this is certainly not something you need to worry about if buying new.”

I also e mailed Manson asking what sized anchor I would need for my boat but I did not ask for a written guarantee. Their reply was as follows.

“Hi there ******, thanks for your email and consideration of our Supreme
Anchor.
I would be looking at a 45lb for general anchoring and coastal sailing but,
to be honest if you were going offshore and extended cruising and wanted a
bulletproof anchor then I would be looking at a 60lb Supreme. All Force Four chandleries have our anchors or can get them in or sell them online. Where are you located and I will forward your request to our local agent to sort the details for you on this”.

I am not going to comment on content of the replies as you can make your own mind up but there appears to be one company here which has faith in its product and wants to sell me an anchor and one which wants to send me elsewhere. Which would use choose?
Click to expand...

Simple explanation. I had the last Rocna 33kg from them a few weeks ago!
 
Twister_Ken said:
One enquiry was to the UK agent, who has performed a neat sidestep by confirming that an anchor it cannot supply will be to spec.

The other was to a non-UK manufacturer that has been helpful in recommending a size, and pointed you in the direction of a local supplier, but has said nothing about spec.

As I don't believe in the 'magic' of the roll bar, personally, I'd be getting in touch with Rex from Sarca, to see if he could load an anchor for you on the pallet he is proposing to send to the UK and also asking Spade what they've got that would grace your noble vessel.
Click to expand...

To be fair I agree that one was to a manufacturer and one was to a chandelry but without giving away which anchor I am going to choose Masnon did reply with "Thanks again for choosing a Supreme, something for which I am more than happy to guarantee the composition of the steel."
"
 
Following my earlier post, I have queried the situation with Piplers who supplied my Rocna. The answer they gave me is:-

"Boyd boats, the previous UK distributor, ceased operations in August 2010. When the new distributor, Marine Factors took over, the only stock left from Boyd Boats was a handful of 70kg and 55kg anchors. They therefore placed an order in late September 2010 which was subsequently manufactured in October and delivered in early December. This is the batch from which your anchor originated.

The correspondence we received from Steve Bambury of Rocna stated that the only anchors affected were a small batch manufactured in the first quarter of 2010. They have also carried out some materials testing on Rocnas in the first months of this year which have confirmed that later batches have all been manufactured with the 800Mpa steel."

Do I feel better now? :confused:
 
vyv_cox said:
So why don't they say that here? and on the USA thread? After all that has been discussed I would be firefighting as hard as I could go if I were them.
Click to expand...

Hi Vyv.

I literally got the email from them this morning as I contacted them directly. Are they members of the forum?

I will speak to the manager and see if he wants to comment directly. Can't see any reason why not.
 
GrantKing said:
BS = Bull S***, you grow mushrooms in it and keep them in the dark:eek:
Click to expand...

I do actually know what BS means.

"only anchors affected were a small batch manufactured in the first quarter of 2010"
"later batches have all been manufactured with the 800Mpa steel"

My questions is which statement do you think is BS? Or both?

The UK distributor says they have only sold anchors made since October 2010. Are you saying these are not 800Mpa?

Thanks
 
SolentBoy said:
I do actually know what BS means.

"only anchors affected were a small batch manufactured in the first quarter of 2010"
"later batches have all been manufactured with the 800Mpa steel"

My questions is which statement do you think is BS? Or both?

The UK distributor says they have only sold anchors made since October 2010. Are you saying these are not 800Mpa?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I am referring to the first one, the second will be decided by current testing being done by others.
 
Well the nerves certainly started jangling when the more recent information, re:materials used, came to light.
My new 15kg Rocna sits on my bow roller as yet unused and my hopes are that a public confirmation of testing of materials will confirm that my shiny 15kg's worth, will do the job up to certified standards. I'm sure it will perform admirably after experiencing my 10kg Rocna in less than the most extreme conditions.
I wait in hope.... could it be a long wait?
With all the unpleasantness that's gone on I still hope that this proven design will end up as one of a batch of different manufacturers anchors that our our lives and boats can all depend upon, open apologies are made, ( if there are errors that have been made) and poorly manufactured items (if there are any) are recovered and replaced, foc all expenses paid. Am I optimistic?
 
Scotty_Twister said:
Well the nerves certainly started jangling when the more recent information, re:materials used, came to light.
My new 15kg Rocna sits on my bow roller as yet unused and my hopes are that a public confirmation of testing of materials will confirm that my shiny 15kg's worth, will do the job up to certified standards. I'm sure it will perform admirably after experiencing my 10kg Rocna in less than the most extreme conditions.
I wait in hope.... could it be a long wait?
With all the unpleasantness that's gone on I still hope that this proven design will end up as one of a batch of different manufacturers anchors that our our lives and boats can all depend upon, open apologies are made, ( if there are errors that have been made) and poorly manufactured items (if there are any) are recovered and replaced, foc all expenses paid. Am I optimistic?
Click to expand...

I dont know.

Just because a test on one anchor says it is right or not right, does not neccessarily mean your own anchor is the same, unless we can make the assumption that all items within the same batch are the same hardness.

The issue will therefore be what batch the anchors being tested are from.

Who is doing a testing anyway? Anyone know where the anchors are that are being tested, and from what time origin?
 
Which anchor?

Nostrodamus

When it comes to concave anchor designs you can’t go past a spade, look past the fiddling in the West Marine test the spade is clearly your best choice, concave with a hoop becomes a mud bucket when deployed in firm mud, the hoop acts like a back board and restricts the movement of mud over the rear.

Sure the concave combo works well but on retrieval in sticky mud you would want to make sure your winch is in good nick as it is not uncommon to pull more than the anchors weight in mud.

When the concave combo is buried in mud, or mud and weed, should it brake out as they can do, as any anchor design can, be prepared to drag a distance before enough mud is disturbed, dropped off before resetting.

The spade anchor can still bring up mud as it too is concave, having no hoop prevents mud packing up, more importantly the spade will bury far deeper as it is not restricted by the hoop.

Done a lot of testing with anchors, the big three in concave design, spade leaves its concave competitors standing, In Australia we have replaced quite a few concave hoop combo anchor designs for a number of unforseen reasons with the convex Super Sarca.

I hope this doesn’t upset anybody but can only say it as is.

Rex.

Anchor Right Austraslia.
 
Only for the true believers.

Solent boy

You may have a sound Rickety, when it comes to getting answers it hasn’t been a problem, RINA approved factory, S/H/H/H Power certification and yes the same tensile steels they use in the space shuttle dunnies, quality control that is second to none, so why are we having discussions over a so called faulty batch, if you can believe anything they tell you then you should believe you can sell ice to the Eskimo’s.


Rex.

Anchor Right Australia.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Metallurgical dummy asks..

"What does Mpa stand for"?
Click to expand...

Megapascals. The miracle that is SI has given us many measurements that nobody can picture and are too big or small for convenient use. One such is the basic unit of stress, which is the pascal. It is actually the force exerted by one newton, a mass equivalent to a small apple, on a square metre. As you might imagine this is a very small amount, which, as we are only allowed to increase in multiples of 10^3 means we can measure in kilopascals or megapascals.

As an ancient steel metallurgist I still think in tons/square inch, while Americans think in ksi, thousands of pounds per square inch.

800 MPa is 58 ton/in sq, a good quality engineering steel figure, the sort of stuff that critical engine parts like conrods and valves might be made from. The problem for anchors is that such steels need a fair amount of carbon in them but they cannot be welded easily and, as I understand it, are not allowed by whatever authority is responsible for anchor manufacture. Hence the Bisalloys and similar materials that have low carbon but quite high strength derived from bismuth. These seem to be made mostly in Australia and not many other places.
 
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