I hate to do this...but

[GrantKing]

It is difficult to beleive the distributors do not know of the full detail of the various forum.

But maybe they are too busy counting profits.

Rocna's dsitributors are well defined - they all have email addresses, send them an email with your comment. If enough people do it - maybe they might think longevity might be better than short term gain.

If no-one does it - we only have ourselves to blame.

I tried, the largest of Rocna's distributors told me they were trying to make sense of the volume of information, or misinformation, they were receiving - then they stopped communicating/ And its difficult to communicate with a brick wall (but how brick walls count money beats me)

I am back in the saddle and ready for another attempt

But post your achievements, or lack of them - its taken months to get this far....

You have to remember that they are in a very difficult position as they have to pay for their stock with the major part of their outlay being before the stock even leaves China.

They also have to wait for the retailers to pay them.

The distributors are seriously exposed, the retailers are seriously exposed.

In the meantime they will be being told by the CEO....don't worry the stories are all untrue, it will blow away and it will be business as usual and we have got lots of free online publicity and great support from a few.

 

[[55354]]

Rocna and the Distributors

To illustrate the cavalier attitude with which the distributors, or some, treat their customers.

Try the West Marine electonic catalogue, find the piece on Rocna - they are still publishing that Rocna have Super High Holding Power, which Rocna admitted was untrue of their Chinese production some many weeks ago It is not only Rocna that are unable to differentiate fact from fiction - but they all possibly have the same motive - and our well being is pretty low down the list

Are all of us really that stupid?

 

[Trop Cher]

Anchor test

I notice that PBO is going an anchor test in next months mag. I wonder if it's in response to this tread? Looking at the picture, it looks as though there are eight anchors in the test including a rocna.
Should be interesting, hope the article is really objective and not too bland...

 

[vyv_cox]

I notice that PBO is going an anchor test in next months mag. I wonder if it's in response to this tread? Looking at the picture, it looks as though there are eight anchors in the test including a rocna.
Should be interesting, hope the article is really objective and not too bland...

No, I think you will find it is exactly what it says. It's by Prof. John Knox, who has been testing anchor holding power for years and has developed various equations for holding guidlines. He also developed Anchorwatch, a strain gauge for anchor rodes.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Hardness testers

Is there such a thing as a small hardness tester that one can rent or buy?

An internet link would be great.

Ideally something you can walk into an anchor shop with and test an anchor before you buy, or test one you own without taking it off the boat.

 

[GrantKing]

Is there such a thing as a small hardness tester that one can rent or buy?

An internet link would be great.

Ideally something you can walk into an anchor shop with and test an anchor before you buy, or test one you own without taking it off the boat.

I would have thought by now, with their own admissions, that they have never produced one out of China that meets the hardness that was preached as the standard for the product.

All of the NZ and Canada production was up to the preached specification.

No need for a hardness test beyond that is there.

If you are concerned then return it , otherwise stick with it.

I know what I would be doing ( but I am just "disgruntled" I am told )

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

I would have thought by now, with their own admissions, that they have never produced one out of China that meets the hardness that was preached as the standard for the product.

All of the NZ and Canada production was up to the preached specification.

No need for a hardness test beyond that is there.

If you are concerned then return it , otherwise stick with it.

I know what I would be doing ( but I am just "disgruntled" I am told )

I think there is a need for a test, and if it is simple to perform why not do it?
Changing an anchor is not a straightforward issue, as it can involve adaptations to the bow roller, and also the fittings for holding the shank down. In my case these were minor as the Rocna replaced a Delta which is very similar. Changing to anything else may not be as simple and before making that decision I want to know what the actual strength is so I can compare it with alternatives.

I know you have different issues to deal with, and the behaviour of Rocna is a different matter. I am not commenting on or judging that - I am just trying to test one anchor.

 

[vyv_cox]

Is there such a thing as a small hardness tester that one can rent or buy?

An internet link would be great.

Ideally something you can walk into an anchor shop with and test an anchor before you buy, or test one you own without taking it off the boat.

The simplest hardness tester is a Scleroscope. You could make a simple one very easily but calibration might be something of a challenge. In its simplest form it is a glass tube, down which a ball bearing is dropped. The height to which it rebounds is directly related to the hardness of the metal, although surface treatments such as galvanising will affect it a little.

It would be easy to calibrate in this case. Just measure the bounce height on a NZ production Rocna, or maybe a Manson Supreme. Then do the same on a bit of low carbon steel, such as a galvanised welded trailer of about the same thickness as the anchor shanks. Now take your tube and ball to your chandlery and measure theirs.

Professional versions of this is shown here http://www.ndthireservices.co.uk/hardness-tester.html. The upper instrument looks like the one used by Rocna themselves, shown a long time ago on a post on the Anything Sailing site. I cannot tell you their hire charge but it would cost approaching £1000 to buy.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

The simplest hardness tester is a Scleroscope. You could make a simple one very easily but calibration might be something of a challenge. In its simplest form it is a glass tube, down which a ball bearing is dropped. The height to which it rebounds is directly related to the hardness of the metal, although surface treatments such as galvanising will affect it a little.

It would be easy to calibrate in this case. Just measure the bounce height on a NZ production Rocna, or maybe a Manson Supreme. Then do the same on a bit of low carbon steel, such as a galvanised welded trailer of about the same thickness as the anchor shanks. Now take your tube and ball to your chandlery and measure theirs.

Professional versions of this is shown here http://www.ndthireservices.co.uk/hardness-tester.html. The upper instrument looks like the one used by Rocna themselves, shown a long time ago on a post on the Anything Sailing site. I cannot tell you their hire charge but it would cost approaching £1000 to buy.

Thanks. That looks perfect.

 

[Delfin]

The simplest hardness tester is a Scleroscope. You could make a simple one very easily but calibration might be something of a challenge. In its simplest form it is a glass tube, down which a ball bearing is dropped. The height to which it rebounds is directly related to the hardness of the metal, although surface treatments such as galvanising will affect it a little.

It would be easy to calibrate in this case. Just measure the bounce height on a NZ production Rocna, or maybe a Manson Supreme. Then do the same on a bit of low carbon steel, such as a galvanised welded trailer of about the same thickness as the anchor shanks. Now take your tube and ball to your chandlery and measure theirs.

Professional versions of this is shown here http://www.ndthireservices.co.uk/hardness-tester.html. The upper instrument looks like the one used by Rocna themselves, shown a long time ago on a post on the Anything Sailing site. I cannot tell you their hire charge but it would cost approaching £1000 to buy.

A cheap solution, I think, are hardness files. They have a known hardness and won't cut what is harder than themselves. Buy one for $17.50 for mPA 750 and you will find you can saw your Chinese Rocna in half with it. Buy a set for $85.00 and find out what steel is used in your Chinese Rocna. Fairly precise test.

 

[vyv_cox]

A cheap solution, I think, are hardness files. They have a known hardness and won't cut what is harder than themselves. Buy one for $17.50 for mPA 750 and you will find you can saw your Chinese Rocna in half with it. Buy a set for $85.00 and find out what steel is used in your Chinese Rocna. Fairly precise test.

Are dealers on your side of the Atlantic happy for you to check their stock with a file? British ones are not, I would guess. The question was what to use to check anchors before buying.

A hardness file needs to cut through the galvanising before it can test the substrate. Even if I had already bought it I would prefer to leave the galvanising intact.

 

[tudorsailor]

So i have an anchor made of the lower grade steel. I spoke on the phone to the main Spanish distributor who supplied the anchor to the local dealer. He is English

Basically he said that all that is written on forums is not necessarily true. He said my anchor will not break. If it bends then it would be covered under Rocna's lifetime warranty

My yacht is back in the UK, although heading back to the Med. There is little more I can do. I bought an anchor that is probably bigger than I needed (40kg for 20ton 49footer) so I will try and avoid anchoring in a hurricane and see what happens.

Tudorsailor

 

[Delfin]

Are dealers on your side of the Atlantic happy for you to check their stock with a file? British ones are not, I would guess. The question was what to use to check anchors before buying.

A hardness file needs to cut through the galvanising before it can test the substrate. Even if I had already bought it I would prefer to leave the galvanising intact.

The question was how to test the anchor he already had, I believe. From the Rocnas I have seen, a 1/16" gap in the galvanizing would appear to be the least of their problems.

Or you can buy a long glass tube and a BB.

 

[Greenheart]

Tudorsailor: "I will try and avoid anchoring in a hurricane".

Does anybody anchor in a hurricane if they could have avoided it?

I'd pick up another anchor of unblemished reputation, and keep the Rotna for calm days and last resorts. Why take a chance?

 

[vyv_cox]

The question was how to test the anchor he already had, I believe. From the Rocnas I have seen, a 1/16" gap in the galvanizing would appear to be the least of their problems.

Or you can buy a long glass tube and a BB.

Solent Boy said 'Ideally something you can walk into an anchor shop with and test an anchor before you buy, or test one you own without taking it off the boat.'

I believe there to be nothing wrong with my NZ Rocna, so why should I file the galvanising off it?

 

[Delfin]

Solent Boy said 'Ideally something you can walk into an anchor shop with and test an anchor before you buy, or test one you own without taking it off the boat.'

I believe there to be nothing wrong with my NZ Rocna, so why should I file the galvanising off it?

Ah, I misunderstood what he meant when he wrote:

In my case these were minor as the Rocna replaced a Delta which is very similar. Changing to anything else may not be as simple and before making that decision I want to know what the actual strength is so I can compare it with alternatives.

I know you have different issues to deal with, and the behaviour of Rocna is a different matter. I am not commenting on or judging that - I am just trying to test one anchor.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[vyv_cox]

Ah, I misunderstood what he meant when he wrote:

In my case these were minor as the Rocna replaced a Delta which is very similar. Changing to anything else may not be as simple and before making that decision I want to know what the actual strength is so I can compare it with alternatives.

I know you have different issues to deal with, and the behaviour of Rocna is a different matter. I am not commenting on or judging that - I am just trying to test one anchor.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I was responding to post #705. You appear to be confused by another post.

Solent Boy responded to my suggestion 'Thanks. That looks perfect.'

 

[[55354]]

Tudorsailor

So all that is written on forums, on Rocna shanks presumably, is not true - so what is untrue and what is the spin from the dealer? I think we would like to know.

To suggest that you wait till your anchor fails looks a bit questionable to me but I would have thought there were EU rules governing sale of product to an advertised specification which differs, in this case markedly, from that advertised. Additionally Rocnas were advertised as being RINA tested and approved - which is blatently not true.

I am not sure how the dealer is Spain wriggles out of this - but maybe the dealers come from the same wriggle factory as the Bamforths and Smiths.

Is there anyone out there who can add a bit of substance to help Tudorsailor?

 

[GrantKing]

So i have an anchor made of the lower grade steel. I spoke on the phone to the main Spanish distributor who supplied the anchor to the local dealer. He is English

Basically he said that all that is written on forums is not necessarily true. He said my anchor will not break. If it bends then it would be covered under Rocna's lifetime warranty

My yacht is back in the UK, although heading back to the Med. There is little more I can do. I bought an anchor that is probably bigger than I needed (40kg for 20ton 49footer) so I will try and avoid anchoring in a hurricane and see what happens.

Tudorsailor

Good luck, is your yacht also covered under the lifetime warranty or do you wear that yourself if the anchor bends and you loose your vessel?

There are also photos circulating online of bent 40kg ones.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Good luck, is your yacht also covered under the lifetime warranty or do you wear that yourself if the anchor bends and you loose your vessel?

There are also photos circulating online of bent 40kg ones.

Grant.

My testing kit is on the way.
Just so I use it properly can you please tell me what steel the shank is made of, and what mpa reading you would expect please.