I hate to do this...but

Ubergeekian said:
What about doing it with an automatic centre punch, to give reasonable standardisation of the blow?
Click to expand...

I don't think it would be very easy to compare two such small indents, but otherwise fine.

When this is done industrially on shafts, gears, etc during manufacture, the guys use a 2 lb hammer and, as with all people who hammer for a living, the blow is not gentle.
 
Rigger Mortice said:
Personally, I believe the "deliberate" theory, but I can understand the advocates of the "cock up". Time will tell.
Click to expand...
Were I a betting man, I would offer 2:1 odds that the savings rendered by moving production to China plus incorporating mild steel for true high tensile steel equals the license fee paid to the Smiths.

Cock-ups generally don't last for a few years, which I think is how long Rocna has been manufacturing in China. I suppose we'll know soon enough, but I would be very surprised if such a long running 'cock-up' didn't prove to be a conscious decision that mild steel is just as good as 800 MPa for the shank 99% of the time. Why forfeit profitability for the odd occasion when your deceit actually matters to someone? The logic will be repulsive, and may include mortgages and wives in iron lungs for justification, but there will be a logic, however warped.

In the meantime, their silence is understandable. They could come out and blame the Chinese, but that would be pretty easy to debunk for the Chinese who no doubt keep records of what kind of steel they used and who they communicated that usage to. Or, they could whip up a few anchors to spec and have them tested. That might work for a few days, but won't convince anyone if West Marine or someone like that does their own tests and finds their inventory out of spec. Perhaps they are just doing what people do when they have no rebuttal to offer - keep their mouths shut and hope for a miracle.
 
Delfin said:
Cock-ups generally don't last for a few years, which I think is how long Rocna has been manufacturing in China.
Click to expand...

'Angonamo. The very most that has been claimed, I gather, is that a couple of anchors bought recently don't meet the stated material specs. That doesn't mean all the current production (there could be a rogue batch) and I haven't seen anything to suggest that any problem goes back to the move to China.

In the meantime, their silence is understandable.
Click to expand...

Indeed it is. They would be very ill-advised to make any comment at all until they had done considerable investigation: perhaps testing a couple of anchors themselves, visiting the factory, inspecting records, acquiring materials samples and so on. All that will take time, particularly over Easter, and it is utterly unreasonable to expect any sort of substantive response at short notice.
 
Ubergeekian said:
They would be very ill-advised to make any comment at all until they had done considerable investigation: perhaps testing a couple of anchors themselves, visiting the factory, inspecting records, acquiring materials samples and so on. All that will take time, particularly over Easter, and it is utterly unreasonable to expect any sort of substantive response at short notice.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am sure that once the holiday is over, they will begin a thorough investigation to find out whether the anchors they are selling match the specifications they advertise, and which Chinese person snuck a couple of sub standard anchors onto the shelf in NZ. While they're at it, perhaps they can find out what scoundrel posted all the rubbish about RINA and SHHP on their website. Maybe that rotter was Chinese too....
 
Ubergeekian said:
They would be very ill-advised to make any comment at all until they had done considerable investigation: perhaps testing a couple of anchors themselves, visiting the factory, inspecting records, acquiring materials samples and so on. All that will take time, particularly over Easter, and it is utterly unreasonable to expect any sort of substantive response at short notice.
Click to expand...

In theory, yes. But they have spent the last few years trying to make out that they have their own "team" of people, at the factory in China, monitoring production, training staff and running their QA programme. So much so that we are supposed to believe that they have such tight control of everything that it would be impossible to get things wrong.

Personally, I think that that is all hogwash. But they should have instant access to their QA records and should certainly have been able to come up with a rebuttal several days ago.

All they have come up with so far is a record from last November which they turn up in April....5 months later...to "prove" that everything is OK.

They also promised, more than a week ago, before the Manson tests were published, to produce their test results and to produce RINA documentation. Since then.......nothing. They haven't even said what they are doing following the Manson results.

As an aside, do they celebrate Easter in China? :)
 
Delfin said:
Were I a betting man, I would offer 2:1 odds that the savings rendered by moving production to China plus incorporating mild steel for true high tensile steel equals the license fee paid to the Smiths.

Cock-ups generally don't last for a few years, which I think is how long Rocna has been manufacturing in China. I suppose we'll know soon enough, but I would be very surprised if such a long running 'cock-up' didn't prove to be a conscious decision that mild steel is just as good as 800 MPa for the shank 99% of the time. Why forfeit profitability for the odd occasion when your deceit actually matters to someone? The logic will be repulsive, and may include mortgages and wives in iron lungs for justification, but there will be a logic, however warped.

In the meantime, their silence is understandable. They could come out and blame the Chinese, but that would be pretty easy to debunk for the Chinese who no doubt keep records of what kind of steel they used and who they communicated that usage to. Or, they could whip up a few anchors to spec and have them tested. That might work for a few days, but won't convince anyone if West Marine or someone like that does their own tests and finds their inventory out of spec. Perhaps they are just doing what people do when they have no rebuttal to offer - keep their mouths shut and hope for a miracle.
Click to expand...

miracle? easier to walk on water
 
Twister_Ken said:
So, Grant, you still haven't said why you left (unless I missed it). Nothing to do with down-speccing to used bean tins, surely?
Click to expand...

The first task was to remove Linox and deal direct with China.
Mission accomplished on first trip to China.

The second task was to remove CNC so all production could be done in China.
Mission accomplished.

This a copy of my resignation notice:

-------------------------------------
Dear Steve,

I hereby give you notice that I will terminate my position with Holdfast on August 1 2010. This gives 3 months for a transition to take place.

While I have enjoyed most of my time with you all I find the time commitment demanded by you and the relative return on those demands unacceptable. Both you and Brian have repeatedly told me over the last 2 months that I must concentrate on my own business , however the workload demand from HF during this time has been in the region of 50 – 60hrs every week. This will not lessen in the foreseeable future as you continue to move pace with changes.

You have burnt me out and I do not want to lose my personal friendship with Brian.

I have always tried my best to meet the responsibilities that I have been given and I am proud of what I have achieved for Holdfast.

You are well down the path towards your desire for a systems based organisation and have spent a great deal of time planning the changes you wish to make.

You have many advisors and Mark to guide you forward that will make it easier for you to progress with your plans without me from August onwards.

I will complete all of the documentation you require for the Manufacturing Agreement and the various quality control documents you wanted.

This will enable you to use other parties in China as you wished for your quality control and production planning.

I will complete all of the duties that I had with China during the trip on July 2 and ensure that during that trip they have a clear understanding of what they have to do in relation to dealing with whatever other parties you have been planning to use.

I will back up all relevant data to the hard drive Brian supplied and hand it over on August 1.

regards
Grant King
Production Manager
Rocna Anchors

------------------------------------------------------

However Steve could not wait until August 1 and instead removed me by having delivered to me a tresspass notice and notice of termination so that he could pursue his desire to run the business his way without anyone looking over his shoulder or correcting him over wrong information and decisions.

I have still not, almost 12 months later, been given reason or been paid for a very large amount outstanding at the time of termination. I too have started litigation to recover my money.

Steve has labelled me a " disgrundled former employee".

That is my new badge and I wear it.
 
Delfin said:
Were I a betting man, I would offer 2:1 odds that the savings rendered by moving production to China plus incorporating mild steel for true high tensile steel equals the license fee paid to the Smiths.

Cock-ups generally don't last for a few years, which I think is how long Rocna has been manufacturing in China. I suppose we'll know soon enough, but I would be very surprised if such a long running 'cock-up' didn't prove to be a conscious decision that mild steel is just as good as 800 MPa for the shank 99% of the time. Why forfeit profitability for the odd occasion when your deceit actually matters to someone? The logic will be repulsive, and may include mortgages and wives in iron lungs for justification, but there will be a logic, however warped.

In the meantime, their silence is understandable. They could come out and blame the Chinese, but that would be pretty easy to debunk for the Chinese who no doubt keep records of what kind of steel they used and who they communicated that usage to. Or, they could whip up a few anchors to spec and have them tested. That might work for a few days, but won't convince anyone if West Marine or someone like that does their own tests and finds their inventory out of spec. Perhaps they are just doing what people do when they have no rebuttal to offer - keep their mouths shut and hope for a miracle.
Click to expand...

The Chinese manufacturers used keep immaculate and detailed records of everything.
 
snooks said:
Well I didn't give them any IP addresses, and neither has Natalie. I'm sure Richard hasn't given Rocna any IP addresses either, but I haven't seen him to ask him.

So (as far as I know) they didn't come from us.
Click to expand...

Whats an IP address.....

no we have not but in fairness its not hard to get someone's IP address if you really want it and know how to get it.
 
RichardShead said:
Whats an IP address.....

no we have not but in fairness its not hard to get someone's IP address if you really want it and know how to get it.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. Without hacking into the site, borrowing or stealing the credentials of a moderator or sysadmin of the site, or having direct correspondence with a poster, you can't get the IP address of posters on an Internet forum if the BB program is not set up to show them.

I think that either Rocna are lying about it, or a mod or sysadmin at ybw.com gave them the IP addresses of that poster.

Here's the whole source code of the headers of Grant's message earlier today:


Today, 01:17


<!-- / status icon and date -->
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="alt2" style="padding:0px">
<!-- user info -->
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="6" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>

<td nowrap="nowrap">

<div id="postmenu_2930012">

<a class="bigusername" href="member.php?u=35229">GrantKing</a>
<img class="inlineimg" src="images/statusicon/user_offline.gif" alt="GrantKing is offline" border="0" />


<script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_2930012", true); </script>

</div>

<div class="smallfont">Registered User</div>



</td>
<td width="100%"> </td>
<td valign="top" nowrap="nowrap">

<div class="smallfont">
<div>Join Date: Jun 2009</div>


<div>
Posts: 43
</div>




<div> </div>
</div>

</td>
</tr>
</table>
<!-- / user info -->
</td>
</tr>
<tr>

<td class="alt1" id="td_post_2930012">

<!-- message, attachments, sig -->




<!-- icon and title -->
<div class="smallfont">
<img class="inlineimg" src="images/icons/icon1.gif" alt="Default" border="0" />

</div>
<hr size="1" style="color:#D1D1E1; background-color:#D1D1E1" />
<!-- / icon and title -->


<!-- message -->
<div id="post_message_2930012">

<div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px; ">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px">Quote:</div>
<table cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%">
<tr>
<td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset">

That's it. No IP address. So if Grant didn't send you an e-mail whose headers you can parse, or if a mod or sysadmin didn't share his IP address with you, or if you didn't hack into ybw and grab the IP addresses, you would have no way of having the IP address from which Grant made that post.
 
Last edited:
RichardShead said:
As Graham has said, nobody here has given anyone any ip addresses and to suggest they have is ludicrous .
Click to expand...

IIRC Rocna said that Whaleboy was Mr Grant. I think Whaleboy has never posted on YBW. So YBW mods can't be the source of that. Has there been another sock puppet accusation? I'd be amazed if there hasn't, I strongly suspect that all of the keen Anchor protagonists are actually one person with about 12 log ins. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top