I hate to do this, but blue ensign question

[Babylon]

I don't want to hear about the rights and wrongs of the UK having a peculiar system of different ensigns, I'm just interested to know what would happen practically if someone wore an undefaced blue without having the warrant to do so.

Who would know that person didn't have the warrant?

If it became apparent that the person didn't have a warrant, how would getting them to stop wearing the undefaced blue be enforced?

Babs

PS This isn't a troll, nor is it something that really bothers me. Its just a theoretical question on a lovely, crisp but sunny Monday morning.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Knowing - it depends on how anti social the sailor is and how far away from base he is. Jimmy no mates could get away with no one knowing. Anyone who is a club member would not.

I've heard the odd story of British consuls aborad boarding British yachts ( which they are legally entitled to do) and confiscating tatty ensigns / wrong ones. But the large numbers of Welsh and Scotts faux ensigns flying shows how unlucky you would have to be to get caught.

Go for it. Wouldnt try the white one though. As soon as someone saw you didnt have guns mounted on deck or werent wearing a blazer and white slacks, they would know you werent Navy or RYS.

 

[Babylon]

...
Go for it.
...

Not my style, really.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I don't want to hear about the rights and wrongs of the UK having a peculiar system of different ensigns, I'm just interested to know what would happen practically if someone wore an undefaced blue without having the warrant to do so.

In practice, absolutely nothing. Partly that's because it's almost impossible to tell by looking whether a boat - or, rather, owner - is entitled to it and partly it's because there is nobody from authority on the ground who cares. "Stop chasing that mugger, officer, and arrest that chap for flying the wrong colour of flag."

This is further confirmed by the very large number of motorboats which fly unauthorised blue ensigns - to match their fenders, probably - at all times without intervention.

 

[Tom Price]

Ensigns

So you've bought one on e-Bay have you?
Apart from the hassle of having to get up at 0800 to hoist it and being on board at 2100 to lower it - to the precise second, for as senior vessel every other boat will be waiting to follow you - the real threat is from HM Customs and Excise whose remit it is to police flag warrants. That's the UK Border Agency to you and me, so if you want to give those booted guerillas an excuse to board then go ahead . . . but the fine is anacronistically huge!
Incidentally, your ensign must be warn simultaneously with the club burgee; do you know which is the only eligible club??

 

[Lucky Duck]

This is further confirmed by the very large number of motorboats which fly unauthorised blue ensigns - to match their fenders, probably - at all times without intervention.

My club won't allow anybody to purchase a blue ensign without providing a MOD warrant and dillegently reminds me when it is about to expire. Maybe other clubs don't take things as seriously?

I read somewhere that the fine for wearing an unauthorised blue ensign is up to £1,000 but I have never heard of anybody being asked to produce the paperwork.

 

[Mark-1]

I read somewhere that the fine for wearing an unauthorised blue ensign is up to £1,000 but I have never heard of anybody being asked to produce the paperwork.

I read that once too. It was some kind of RYA publication. Like you, I've never heard of anyone prosecuted. I've never heard of a leisure sailor prosecuted for lack of VHF licence either yet there must be countless people with DSC radios who haven't got the DSC radio licence.

 

[Poignard]

I say!

At the very least, the bounder ought to be blackballed from his club.

 

[timbartlett]

It's here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21/section/2
And if you get tried before a judge, the fine is unlimited. Magistrates can "only" go up to £5k

 

[oldvarnish]

i know of an occassion when a friend of mine was hailed by the QHM Plymouth and reminded that if he chose to fly a blue he must also fly his burgee. So somebody is watching!

 

[Ubergeekian]

My club won't allow anybody to purchase a blue ensign without providing a MOD warrant and dillegently reminds me when it is about to expire. Maybe other clubs don't take things as seriously?h

Club Schmub. They're available off the shelf at many chandlers - Kip, Duncans and Port Edgar for a start.

 

[rivonia]

So you've bought one on e-Bay have you?
Apart from the hassle of having to get up at 0800 to hoist it and being on board at 2100 to lower it - to the precise second, for as senior vessel every other boat will be waiting to follow you - the real threat is from HM Customs and Excise whose remit it is to police flag warrants. That's the UK Border Agency to you and me, so if you want to give those booted guerillas an excuse to board then go ahead . . . but the fine is anacronistically huge!
Incidentally, your ensign must be warn simultaneously with the club burgee; do you know which is the only eligible club??

The Cruising Association
The Royal Marsh Harbour Yacht Club

Just to name two

Peter

 

[HoratioHB]

Just got back and having spent many happy hours reading the current anchoring thread and deciding not have my two penny worth - couldn't resist this one.
Apparently one of the few duties left to me as a commisioned RN Officer (albeit retired) is the responsibility to ensure correct flag etiquette is followed and I have been relaibly informed I have powers of enforcement in this regard.
Hah Hah - just watch out you lot, especially if you are in the South West.

 

[timbartlett]

Incidentally, your ensign must be warn simultaneously with the club burgee; do you know which is the only eligible club??

Here's a list of the "only eligible club" :-
Royal Albert Yacht Club
Royal Anglesey Yacht Club
Royal Cinque Ports Yacht Club
Royal Cruising Yacht Club
Royal Dorset Yacht Club
Royal Engineer Yacht Club
Royal Gourock Yacht Club
Royal Highland Yacht Club
Royal Marines Sailing Club
Royal Motor Yacht Club
Royal Naval Sailing Association
Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Yacht Club
Royal Northern and Clyde Yacht Club
Royal Scottish Motor Yacht Club
Royal Solent Yacht Club
Royal Southern Yacht Club
Sussex Motor Yacht Club
Royal Temple Yacht Club
Royal Thames Yacht Club
Royal Western Yacht Club of England
Royal Western Yacht Club of Scotland

Plus these that wear defaced blues:-
Aldeburgh Yacht Club
Army Sailing Association
Bar Yacht Club
City Livery Yacht Club
Cruising Association
Medway Yacht Club
House of Lords Yacht Club
Royal Air Force
Royal Anglesey Yacht Club
Royal Armoured Corps Yacht Club
Royal Artillery Yacht Club
Royal Burnham Yacht Club
Royal Channel Islands Yacht Club
Conway Club Cruising Association
Royal Corinthian Yacht Club
Royal Cornwall Yacht Club
Royal Dee Yacht Club
Royal Forth Yacht Club
Royal Harwich Yacht Club
Household Division Yacht Club
Royal Irish Yacht Club
Royal North of Ireland Yacht Club
Little Ship Club
Royal London Yacht Club
Medway Cruising Club
Royal Mersey Yacht Club
Royal North of Ireland Yacht Club
Royal Northumberland Yacht Club
Royal Ocean Racing Club
Parkstone Yacht Club
Royal Plymouth Corinthian Yacht Club
Poole Yacht Club
Severn Motor Yacht Club
Royal Southampton Yacht Club
Sussex Yacht Club
Poole Harbour Yacht Club
Thames Motor Yacht Club
Royal Torbay Yacht Club
Royal Ulster Yacht Club
Royal Welsh Yacht Club
Royal Yorkshire Yacht Club
Old Worcesters Yacht Club

Ubergeekians crack about motor boats might be explained by the fact that many blue ensign "yacht" clubs are more welcoming of applications from motor boaters than most red ensign "sailing" clubs.

 

[Tom Price]

[QUOTE=rivonia : "The Cruising Association
The Royal Marsh Harbour Yacht Club
Just to name two."

WRONG! OP asked about the blue ensign, NOT defaced ones.
So which club(s) can wear one?

 

[TamarMike]

So let me see if I've got this right ....... blue ensigns come with a better warranty than red ones but its not transferable if you sell it on?














Does the Warrant cover defects in the galvanising?

 

[VO5]

Here's a list of the "only eligible club" :-
Royal Albert Yacht Club
Royal Anglesey Yacht Club
Royal Cinque Ports Yacht Club
Royal Cruising Yacht Club
Royal Dorset Yacht Club
Royal Engineer Yacht Club
Royal Gourock Yacht Club
Royal Highland Yacht Club
Royal Marines Sailing Club
Royal Motor Yacht Club
Royal Naval Sailing Association
Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Yacht Club
Royal Northern and Clyde Yacht Club
Royal Scottish Motor Yacht Club
Royal Solent Yacht Club
Royal Southern Yacht Club
Sussex Motor Yacht Club
Royal Temple Yacht Club
Royal Thames Yacht Club
Royal Western Yacht Club of England
Royal Western Yacht Club of Scotland

Plus these that wear defaced blues:-
Aldeburgh Yacht Club
Army Sailing Association
Bar Yacht Club
City Livery Yacht Club
Cruising Association
Medway Yacht Club
House of Lords Yacht Club
Royal Air Force
Royal Anglesey Yacht Club
Royal Armoured Corps Yacht Club
Royal Artillery Yacht Club
Royal Burnham Yacht Club
Royal Channel Islands Yacht Club
Conway Club Cruising Association
Royal Corinthian Yacht Club
Royal Cornwall Yacht Club
Royal Dee Yacht Club
Royal Forth Yacht Club
Royal Harwich Yacht Club
Household Division Yacht Club
Royal Irish Yacht Club
Royal North of Ireland Yacht Club
Little Ship Club
Royal London Yacht Club
Medway Cruising Club
Royal Mersey Yacht Club
Royal North of Ireland Yacht Club
Royal Northumberland Yacht Club
Royal Ocean Racing Club
Parkstone Yacht Club
Royal Plymouth Corinthian Yacht Club
Poole Yacht Club
Severn Motor Yacht Club
Royal Southampton Yacht Club
Sussex Yacht Club
Poole Harbour Yacht Club
Thames Motor Yacht Club
Royal Torbay Yacht Club
Royal Ulster Yacht Club
Royal Welsh Yacht Club
Royal Yorkshire Yacht Club
Old Worcesters Yacht Club

Ubergeekians crack about motor boats might be explained by the fact that many blue ensign "yacht" clubs are more welcoming of applications from motor boaters than most red ensign "sailing" clubs.

You are wrong. Your list is not complete.
See the Royal Gibraltar Yacht cLub website for details regarding Admiralty Warrants for flying a defaced blue and our club pennant.

 

[neale]

This is further confirmed by the very large number of motorboats which fly unauthorised blue ensigns - to match their fenders, probably - at all times without intervention.

And how do you know that they are unauthorised?

 

[Ubergeekian]

Ubergeekians crack about motor boats might be explained by the fact that many blue ensign "yacht" clubs are more welcoming of applications from motor boaters than most red ensign "sailing" clubs.

Last year I saw, as I recall, only one motor boat on the Clyde flying a red ensign. All the rest were blue. Maybe I was just surrounded by exalted company.

 

[Ubergeekian]

And how do you know that they are unauthorised?

No burgees!