I found mooring up difficult.

[harstonwood]

Good stuff Kwacka

I am very grateful for a days instruction from Mr Kawasaki parking the Targa in Pwllheli
Still a struggle, but learnt a lot
Well worth investing in instruction
Need another day soon Rich

Cheers
HW

ps rich.....steering now sorted and new clutch in starboard leg. Port leg rebuilt after altercation with bow line...........vertical shaft broke just above where its designed to break! and knackered prop shaft, which is paired to vertical shaft.....I then increased GDP of sweden by 1% to get the parts!)

 

[cem]

Gentlemen please!!
Could I remind those with "less experience" that the thing that prompted Tom's comment was my post in which I said I was planning to use this thread in Motor Boat and Yachting -- one of the two motorboating magazines that is behind this forum. I've already discussed it with the Editor of MBY, who has agreed, and will be providing Warpa with a free subscription. So although I'm only a freelance writer, I think I can confidently say that you are are definitely "wanted"!

Tom: I, for one, found this "nursery school" boat handling problem quite thought-provoking.

And a What Now needs experience people to contribute answers, as well as less experienced to read them. Maybe you'd be one of the former?

that is exactly the point forums are a place for people to learn about their hobby/sport/subject etc etc the problem is some of the "old guard" like to think that if you have not got 30 years experience at the bar (because that seems to be where they dish out most of their advice) then you are not welcome. I moderate on 2 forums on a different subject and to be honest this is the worst of any i contribute to for snobbery that i think i have ever come across!

now for that old guard here is the idea of a forum.... (or at least a part of it) someone with less knowledge asks a question....YOU (with the knowledge) offer advice, novice learns from advice...life goes on...... novice goes away on a course or over time learns a load of information about subject....novice posts a question to which old novice (now with experience) can give advice....so the cycle continues.........those that don't want to give should probably best avoid forum and just read books written by experts in the subject or perhaps write the books themselves!

sure there are dumb questions asked on forums but this IMO certainly isn't one of them... to be honest this place is getting full of people who look down on anyone who doesn't on a super yacht sized boat... for what it is worth i have a 21.5 ft sports cruiser, i worked my ass off to afford it the marina i keep her at is the most friendly place i have every been ion the boating world(spent many years crewing on race yachts in the 90's)

problem is as i see it is the experienced (or some of them) do not seem willing to share their advice other than that to go away and play somewhere else


/rant over

 

[powerskipper]

mmm

Its a place to read of adventure others of had and you have had , if it went wrong a bit, some one on here has had it happen to them to.

There are peeps on here who help where they can as we all remember what it was like when we started.

some forget this, or will not remember .
so lets ignore the grump forumites and enjoy the forum.

big boat , little boat we are all in the same boat.

 

[Bojangles]

This has been a fairly active thread, why? probably because everyone who has a boat read the title "I found mooring up difficult" and thought yep "so have I"

As others have already said, I would advise anyone who currently would still think this way, to take some instruction. I have recently done a day skipper practical course and a good bit of it was close quarter manouvering in the marina. Even taking an instructor for a half/full day will make a huge difference to your confidence and hence your enjoyment in using your boat. There's nothing better than a day out in your boat, but it takes the edge off it if your nervous about getting back into your berth.

A good instructor will give you step by step advice on manouvering in and out of a variety of different berths in various wind/tide conditions, with you at the helm the whole time. People say nothing beats experience, thats what you get with instruction, others knowledge to help you gain yours. I for one have definately benefitted from tuition, okay I don't get it right 100% of the time but I'm improving (and worrying about causing damage less)

 

[AndieMac]

sure there are dumb questions asked on forums but this IMO certainly isn't one of them... to be honest this place is getting full of people who look down on anyone who doesn't on a super yacht sized boat... for what it is worth i have a 21.5 ft sports cruiser, i worked my ass off to afford it the marina i keep her at is the most friendly place i have every been ion the boating world(spent many years crewing on race yachts in the 90's)

problem is as i see it is the experienced (or some of them) do not seem willing to share their advice other than that to go away and play somewhere else


/rant over

It's not the guys with the big flash boats that cause the occasional grief, with their little 'pearls of arrogance', in fact they are the ones who are more likely to help you.

There are however a very small number of 'frightfully intelligent', highly educated and well read forum members with interests that do not include general motorboating, who target new sports-boat owners, mainly it appears for the negative reactions.....

Go figure that one

 

[BrendanS]

who and where? I don't get the old guard bit and not passing on advice. That argument has been put forward over and over again since these forums started, and still no evidence of it.

 

[oGaryo]

here's a couple of questions from a self affirmed novice then that to date, has got lucky when it comes to mooring where thus far, misreading conditions haven't resulted in a crunch..... yet

mainly due to taking the approach of slow is good, and roving fenders are your best friend rather than using loads of throttle to get out of a sticky situation... as is making sure your crew are well briefed and the boat's prep'd accordingly 'before' entering the fairway... oh yeah, and asking the marina office over the VHF as to what side (port/starboard)you'll be berthing depending on whether you intend to go bow or stern in.

always learning and am much better these days but a couple of things I've still to figure out is:

1... how to read the tidal effect fully in a given marina... wind is easier.. look at the flags for direction and know the forecast to understand strength and likelihood of significant gusts..... tidal effect is the thing I still don't get fully.. I generally consider whether it's coming up the river or down judging strength depending on the state of the tide but as for direction for a given berth considering eddies etc? how do you work out the likely effect on the boat and also, how do you judge the resultant force on the boat when combined with the wind? e.g. in some circumstance, wind could cancel out tide, in others one will win over, in others they'll be combined and in others, the resultant force will be at a different angle to both wind and tide...

the only thing I can think of is look uptide of the berth to judge if anything's likely to affect the way the water's going to act on the berth e.g. no obstruction, assume the water will be whipping through the berth parallel to the bank in whatever direction the tide's running.... and then, position the boat momentarily, just outside the berth in question, pop the engine in to neutral and see what happens to the boat before entering the berth taking account of what's just been experienced.

is that it? or are there better methods? I'll eat my hat if there isn't

2.... another one is knowing what crew member (bow or stern) to tell to get ready with a spring.. haven't figured that out yet so just tell them whoever has first chance to jump on to the pontoon, or hook a line over a cleat, just go for it and I'll do the rest once one end of the boat is tied on... again, gotta be a better way, right? to date, sometimes the bow comes aside first, other times, the stern nips in.

p.s. I've no bow thrusters, a single sterdrive and a fairely high sided 27ft boat with 3ft draft

 

[alant]

here's a couple of questions from a self affirmed novice then that to date, has got lucky when it comes to mooring where thus far, misreading conditions haven't resulted in a crunch..... yet

mainly due to taking the approach of slow is good, and roving fenders are your best friend rather than using loads of throttle to get out of a sticky situation... as is making sure your crew are well briefed and the boat's prep'd accordingly 'before' entering the fairway... oh yeah, and asking the marina office over the VHF as to what side (port/starboard)you'll be berthing depending on whether you intend to go bow or stern in.

always learning and am much better these days but a couple of things I've still to figure out is:

1... how to read the tidal effect fully in a given marina... wind is easier.. look at the flags for direction and know the forecast to understand strength and likelihood of significant gusts..... tidal effect is the thing I still don't get fully.. I generally consider whether it's coming up the river or down judging strength depending on the state of the tide but as for direction for a given berth considering eddies etc? how do you work out the likely effect on the boat and also, how do you judge the resultant force on the boat when combined with the wind? e.g. in some circumstance, wind could cancel out tide, in others one will win over, in others they'll be combined and in others, the resultant force will be at a different angle to both wind and tide...

the only thing I can think of is look uptide of the berth to judge if anything's likely to affect the way the water's going to act on the berth e.g. no obstruction, assume the water will be whipping through the berth parallel to the bank in whatever direction the tide's running.... and then, position the boat momentarily, just outside the berth in question, pop the engine in to neutral and see what happens to the boat before entering the berth taking account of what's just been experienced.

is that it? or are there better methods? I'll eat my hat if there isn't

2.... another one is knowing what crew member (bow or stern) to tell to get ready with a spring.. haven't figured that out yet so just tell them whoever has first chance to jump on to the pontoon, or hook a line over a cleat, just go for it and I'll do the rest once one end of the boat is tied on... again, gotta be a better way, right? to date, sometimes the bow comes aside first, other times, the stern nips in.

p.s. I've no bow thrusters, a single sterdrive and a fairely high sided 27ft boat with 3ft draft

" haven't figured that out yet so just tell them whoever has first chance to jump on to the pontoon, or hook a line over a cleat, just go for it and I'll do the rest once one end of the boat is tied on... again, "

Please, don't ask them to "jump", thats how accidents happen on wet/slippery pontoons. These + moving props are not a good mix.

I always ask crew to 'Step off & no leaps of faith'. If they can't step, you haven't done your parking properly, so should abort & try again.

There's no shame in having more than one try to get it right.

 

[gsturgeon]

Single V twin

I think one of the problems is that we tend to start with smallish, single engined outdrive boats, which are perhaps the most difficult to moor in a wind . They rotate about the centre and if driven gently quickly pick up speed downwind. Having traumitised myself and crew over a couple of seasons, I employed a profesional instructor who couldn't do it either!

Moving on to two engines, just the same, then I was advised to center the steering (essential) and use the throttle/gears only. The boat now rotates around the props and can be driven like a tracked vehicle. Havn't hit the pontoon for years! (...till the next time).

 

[oGaryo]

" haven't figured that out yet so just tell them whoever has first chance to jump on to the pontoon, or hook a line over a cleat, just go for it and I'll do the rest once one end of the boat is tied on... again, "

Please, don't ask them to "jump", thats how accidents happen on wet/slippery pontoons. These + moving props are not a good mix.

I always ask crew to 'Step off & no leaps of faith'. If they can't step, you haven't done your parking properly, so should abort & try again.

There's no shame in having more than one try to get it right.

a good point... my post was fuguratively speaking but granted, misleading Alan so please disregard the jump and exchange with step... what I'm really saying is invariably, either the bow or stern touches first and with a single drive in a condtion where the wind and / or tide will quickly push my high sided boat away from the pontoon, I tend to need one of the crew to 'promptly' step off the boat or throw a line round a cleat so I can bring the opposite end in using that spring... any views on this or the other question I've asked?

p.s. I have used a centre cleat on the baot before to try and overcome the front/arse end thing but tend only to use that when I have insufficient crew on board to cover the bow and stern

 

[Tom Price]

[QUOTE=timbartlett:
"Gentlemen please!! Could I remind those with "less experience" that the thing that prompted Tom's comment was my post in which I said I was planning to use this thread in Motor Boat and Yachting"

Tim, you can always be relied upon to sort the wheat from the chaff! I don't question the usefulness of 'tuition' on your pages, and these responses confirm that. What I question is the WNS title when all previous 'problems' involved wider issues than simply parking the boat. Truisms like 'we were all novices once' miss my point altogether.

Perhaps you could ask your Editor to confirm his concept of WNS and if he is going to start an Advice for Beginners section.

I've suggested a a much better problem for discussion, where bad weather necessitates prolonging your stay in a marina but the Berthing Master says you can't as another boat has booked in and they're full. To make it more interesting there in no suitable harbour nearby.

To repeat, my concept of WNS is addressing a serious problem which affects the vessel and the crew on board; boat handling is taken for granted, however bad at it we may be!

 

[thejonesey]

FWIW
Communicate with your crew, ideally in advance so everyone knows what you expect of them. SWIMBO does all my ropes, I have offered to swap but she is happiest with a rope or fender in hand. I tell her what I am planning to do well in advance, ie when going home to Burseldon we discuss wind and tide conditions, which is stronger etc, while travelling up the Hamble, so when have plan A and B ready to go.

+1 to getting lots of practise!!! I made a complete mess of berthing my current boat until we put aside some time to understand "what the boat did when..." and also to work out and repeat a "usual" routine.

Gary is absolutely right about getting a line on somewhere as this gives you lots more options. My aim now is to get confident/good enough to do it single-handed. Lots of lassoing practise from the mid cleat this July!!!

 

[AndieMac]

1... how to read the tidal effect fully in a given marina...

Depends on the location, but often they are positioned into a bay/cove, whether it be natural or man made, within a river, and as you say, there is often a back eddie which creates a lesser reversing current, just to add to the confusion. As the general river flow rate increases (tide or flooding) so does the back eddie, with also cause siltation build up, unfortunately.

Generally the strongest effect of tranverse tide in your average river based marina will be the first 1/3 to 1/2 of the fairway length heading inshore, then it could be effected by the lesser flow of the back eddie, depending on the run (flood waters for example).
Generally if it is all clear, and your intended berth is inshore, don't dawdle through the first mid-river section if the river is running quickly, make your assessments sitting just outside, holding station, watching for any potential boat movements from other vessels.