I don't believe it NB

Re: I don\'t believe it NB

The age old adage of forums applies here. It's like walking into a pub, Regulars at the pub know the other regulars, and can get away with a lot more than passing trade in terms of the comments they pass. You are new, relatively speaking, while Boatless is something of a pisshead, sorry, regular! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

His response was well within the bounds of the forum, and most people know or can guess when they or others have overstepped the mark. You are being a litttle sensitive to this issue when you describe the response as fairly aggressive. . IMHO.

Just wait till you've been around long enough to get a really aggresive response! /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
Re: I don\'t believe it NB

This probably isn't the time to raise the War of 1812 then?

Lots of cruising - some very impressive technical sail gear about!! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Nickel

Being paranoid simply means - having all the facts.
 
Re: I don\'t believe it NB

To take this back a little toward cruising, boats etc, one experience I will never forget moored next to a beautiful american sloop in Lymington last summer. Very Nice Older Couple from Boston on board, were preparing boat for return on container ship to USA that week. Asked if our boys could help let down tender, heavier jobs etc.

The lads duly did and they invited us over for drinks, after some banter and very agreeable white wine, the lady asked this question, "We have been travelling Europe / Med now for the last three months, could you explain why it is many countries simply do not like America, (and here is the punchline) what have we ever done to deserve this??" I had to take a few minutes to think before very diplomatically saying that I didn't think that was particularly true however perhaps their unquestioning support of Israel was a possible reason. I will never forget the look of amazement on their faces that there could possibly any other stance than their Countries stance. I then reminded them of our feelings as Brits when it emerged many New Yorkers supported the IRA and thus how Palestinians must thus feel even more aggrieved. This did light a little spark of recognition, but it was a totally dumbstruck couple we left that night. Lovely people though, but totally ill informed. IMHO. Paul

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time for special pleading..

That's different.

1939-45, we were in it first and it was the right thing to do. Just as well they came and helped us out or we'd have been stuffed.

1914 - 1918, we were in it first and it was the wrong thing to do on both sides. Mind you, we'd still have been stuffed if they hadn't come & bailed us out.

They did (quite rightly) not only fail to come to our aid, but actively stymied us in our little bit of sabre-rattling in Suez.

This current little escapade is as indefensible as Suez was.

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Re: I don\'t believe it NB

I knew I was rubbish at this computer stuff - now I know I'm REALLY rubbish. Aahh bo**ocks! Oooppss. Sorry-shouldn't swear in company of a lady!

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Re: I don\'t believe it NB

That reply was actually to Nich39Nige, not Boatless. I cut and pasted the text from Nich39's post so that people would know what I was responding to. The stuff in inverted commas is not mine!!!! Sorry to offend any proper regulars, but it is a public forum. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif Anyway, I can't wait to get a truly horrible reply and and am sitting here brewing some contentious subjects in anticiptation. I will try to take the forum in the spirit intended in future./forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by dralex on 20/07/2004 19:44 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Re: time for special pleading..

I wrote and posted this to a number of papers, it was printed in the Pravda as well.
Here is an extract from the whole article. Remeber I am not english.
I also know vietnamese and having worked for Siemens as a young engieer, we were up against the dirty tricks of the Americans. We got the contracts in the end though.

*********************************

When it became clear that the US would start the unjustified war
in Iraq, a friend of mine and I predicted what would happen and
we were right to the finest detail. I cannot look into the
future of course, but knowing history and understanding the
present, it is quite possible to predict the future.
It is commonly known that the US in Vietnam killed about 2
Million Vietnamese and lost 56000 or some sources say 65000
soldiers. The US lost but left behind a legacy of destruction
and dioxin pollution that still causes health and environmental
problems in Vietnam. Currently the US has military presence in
120 countries around the world and it had a military presence
in Lebanon. Why I could never understand.

On the 18th of April 1983 63 people killed in an suicide attack
on the US embassy including the whole of Middle East Contingent
of the CIA, Director of the section and all.

Then on the 23rd of Oct. 1983 an even bigger suicide bombing
attack on the Marine Barracks killed 241 Marines and seriously
wounded 80 others.

In the aftermath Pres.Reagan said:
"Those young people on a mission of peace in a land stricken by
violence, were killed as they slept."

True enough that these young people were killed, but what did
these young people do and how this mission of peace was
performed when they were not sleeping was explained in an
article in an US publication SOLDIERS OF FORTUNE referred to
as SOF, the editor being Robert(Bob) Brown and the weapons
expert Peter Kokalis (whom I have met). In the edition 140? (I
believe issue 145 or 147 the index has been remoced since the
Iraq war began) of 1985, an article "US MARINE SNIPER IN
LEBANON" made such an impression on me that now 18 years later
I can still quote from it!

The sniper and author of the article reveals in detail how he
shot from various locations people he he did not know and who
had done him no harm. I quote two of his accomplishments:

"One day I got two with one shot, I was in position in a church
tower when two youngsters came down the road on a scooter
straight for me. I got him and his girl with one shot."

Imagine who these people may have been. I imagined that an 18
year old borrowed the 125cc Vespa from his older brother to take
his 16 year old sweetheart for an outing. To this day this haunts
me, because I was at that time designing special weapons,
silencers and sniper rifles.

The marine sniper proudly reveals more:
"When I saw a couple I used to shoot the man first - the woman
always ran away and I never got a shot at her. Nowadays I always
shoot the woman first and the man will stay and try and help
her. So I get the second shot and that way I always get both."

Certainly such occurrences were not isolated incidents but hardly
known to the rest of the world. Known to he Lebanese, such made
the US warmongers (on a mission of peace) the most hated
people in the area and lately invading Iraq has spread that
hatred around the world. Shame poor Americans - why would
anybody blow up young people "on a mission of peace"?????


***********************

And a few facts which some of you might know anyway.

USA comprising 5% of the worlds populations is using 28% of the world's energy, of this 35% is used by the US military.
The USA has a department of aggression, but they call it department of defence.

The USA has never defended itself, it was always aggression on some other countries soil.

In a Time or Newsweek survey some years ago, only 14% of US high-school students could point out the United States on a world map.

A visitor to Nambia wrote to me:"Having been the first time outside the US, I now realize, we live in a vaccum of fear and ignorance".

When I discuss the US, for me there is no cheek in tongue, I get violently angry.

However, history has shown us, the more extrem a system becomes, the shorter its life.

angry ongolo

<hr width=100% size=1>So what......... it floats<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ongolo on 20/07/2004 19:49 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
Re: I don\'t believe it NB

"It is the attitude of USA that is one of the route causes of terrorism as has been said by others with regard to the Israeli occupation of Palestine and their support for Israel against the poor Palestinians. Plus their bully boy antics toward anyone who doesn't think that the American way is the only way."

IIRC it was an Israeli politician who made the most insightful statement about this horrific situation. "That the Israeli/palestinian conflict could not be resolved until the palestinians started to love their own children more than they hated the Israelis"

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Re: I don\'t believe it NB

<< Can we get back to discussing cruising, or at least something remotely related.>>

Cruise missiles ...??

John

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Re: I don\'t believe it NB

Are cruising missiles ones that just fly around and can't decide on a target? There's a nice military installation- Naah- can't be bothered- see what comes along later- I'm enjoying just flying around at the moment.

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now.
 
Re: I don\'t believe it NB

I don't think the Middle East conflict can be resolved until the Israelis start to recognise that Palestinian children are just as precious as their own.

<hr width=100% size=1>Nickel

Being paranoid simply means - having all the facts.
 
Re: I don\'t believe it NB

Another "bash" America thread. Must be the Forum worlds number one target.

I've travelled with my work all over the world. I get to meet and socialise with people on the shop floor, engineers, managers, directors and I form my opinions on people I've met, conversations I've had, sights I've seen.

Every single non democratic country I've been to is a miserable place to be. For those that advocate the "Let them be" policies, try speaking to folks in Cuba, Vietnam ( People forget that most South Vietnamese hate the regime there), all the eastern block countries as they were, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Libya, China and plenty more.

While there, ask folks which country the would most like to go and live in.
It won't be one of the above, and rarely Europe.

Americans are often naive, often ignorant. But the majority are good people, with good intent. They screw up, they have problems. Who doesn't? But they do have a country that allows comment, free press, investigation, criticism, religious freedom and accountability.

I'm not making any comment about who's right or who's wrong, just commenting on what I've seen. Unlike most experts on world matters who have never travelled beyond their 'exotic' holiday, I know where I would go if I had to move on.

And I bet the boat would be packed.........

<hr width=100% size=1>Beer - its not just for Breakfast you know.
 
Re: I don\'t believe it NB

You are not the only well travelled man of the world. I have worked in just about all the countries you mentioned and many more. The perceived American dream is a dream, racism, poverty and unequal opportunity is the norm in the States. It has a selfish attitude regarding the world's resources and to who can pollute our atmophere (it is "ours")

Religious fundamentalism is rife but because it is American it is fine. In any other place it means terrorism.

Also in Russia America is not the place most Russians would rather be but France, Italy. the Netherlands and even the UK. I speak from a couple of years working in Russia.

As for free comment...if the good and powerful media owners don't like what you have to say it is almost impossible to get a platform.

Some of us are just as qualified as you although I wouldn't go as far as to say I was an expert just because I'm well travelled. All my "exotic" holidays have been sailing in European waters.

You are indeed welcome to move on........of all the places I have worked the last place I would go back to is the States.

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