rotrax
Well-Known Member
I consider it appropriate I keep schtum....!
+1!
I can see why some people don't like yachties
- Thread starter l'escargot
- Start date
+1!
ctva
Well-Known Member
Not quite right and too easy to blame the RYA for everything. The pre-entry for DI and selection days for SI are looking at personal sailing skills, i.e., can you sail a boat to best advantage using all five essentials which also demonstrates good seamanship. The best way to see this in a single day for both the coach assessor and peers within the group is to have 'racing' excersizes amongst other things. It lets you see how good you are relative to others and overall.
We all make mistakes but what the OP seems more to be annoyed about, and rightly so, is basic manners.
maby
Well-Known Member
Close quarters handling does not seem to be well taught. My wife and I passed both Dayskipper Theory and Practical without being taught much more than how to tie up against a long jetty. We did recognise our limitations and have purchased a full day of own boat tuition in close quarters handling each time we have changed our boat.
prv
Well-Known Member
+1
Pontoon-bashing was one of the main things I hoped to get out of the DS course I did back in 2002. I'd done plenty of sailing as crew on other people's boats (including being alone on watch during night passages) but had never steered a yacht alongside a pontoon because, understandably, owners like to do the potentially paint-scraping bits themselves.
Of course, booking a course in the West Country where there are pleasantly few marinas may not have been the wisest choice given the above
Lots of picking up moorings, but I think we only berthed alongside twice (including final arrival back at our home marina berth) during the whole week. Did spend one morning doing the obligatory practising but, similarly to Maby's experience, this was alongside a long deserted pontoon that felt like landing a Cessna on the main runway at Heathrow!
Pete
Marakei
Well-Known Member
The Day Skipper syllabus only specifies being able to park alongside a pontoon, or at least my instructor told me she'd give me the certificate provided I could do that, even if I couldn't park in a marina berth.
That said, we did do marina berth parking quite a lot, and everyone had come in and out of a marina berth by the end of the week [and I said sorry to the boat I hit].
That said, we did do marina berth parking quite a lot, and everyone had come in and out of a marina berth by the end of the week [and I said sorry to the boat I hit].
maby
Well-Known Member
You were lucky - we only spent one night in a marina and the instructor parked the boat. We did do quite a lot of practice coming alongside a pontoon, but it was a long one and no other boats in a radius of many tens of yards.
TangaraToo
RIP
Perhaps it comes down to who's running the course.
I know at out sailing club (dinghy) a lot of time during RYA L2 is spent comming alongside under sail and that PBL2 also has a lot of emphasis on close quarters handling. It might be that the PBL2 at the club is geared towards manning the safety boat which does require very good close quarters control hence the emphasis placed on it.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
I wonder if you are mixing two sports?
Yacht racing is a bit like F1 racing and has no reality to the real world and rather boring.
Were the "pit crew" on the pontoon ready to guide the racing machine in, tend it, wipe the drivers brow and set it off again?
maby
Well-Known Member
Sounds to me like you are talking about dinghy rather than yacht tuition there. They are very different skills - we came away from our course with a bit of paper saying that we were competent to sail a ten ton boat, but had never parked in a space that was less than three times the size of the boat.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
There used to be a section in the practical course syllabus on manners and customs back in the mid to late 1980s. It focused on coming alongside, asking permission, passing lines under others loops, rafting up, asking permission to cross a yacht; pretty sure it also addressed noise levels and discussed that a crew may be resting because they would be leaving early. I cant remember if it was in the CC or DS practical course but I am sure that item, which had to be signed off in the RYA log book, was pulled from the syllabus around the early 1990s. It's a shame because the RYA teaches sailors for leisure purposes and there is no place for rudeness in what should be a pass time that demands a high degree of camaraderie. There are a few soft areas like that are missing now from the RYA.
Having said the above, I note that from the RYA web site for CC: -
prv
Well-Known Member
I believe it's still in the syllabus - on a Tall Ships voyage last year a few of us were comparing our variously-aged RYA books, and the guy with the brand new one still had a box for that. What we mostly noticed was that in his case it also included environmental and anti-pollution stuff, whereas when our books were printed "the environment hadn't been invented yet"
Of course, how much of this category actually gets taught will depend on the individual instructor - and where you do the course. As mentioned upthread, mine was in an area dominated by swinging moorings, so not much opportunity to demonstrate civilised behaviour in a quay-wall raft.
Pete
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Not at all, they were weekend sailors in oldish 32' (there's a clue there!) cruiser/racers coming into the normal visitor berths (another clue there too!) in a marina. Perhaps if there had been pit crew they may not have made such a hash up of getting the boats tied up... but it still wouldn't have excused the disregard for other people a couple of crews nearest to me displayed. Perhaps they had delusions of grandeur and thought they were serious racers...
flaming
Well-Known Member
I had wondered if it was that fleet.
One of our crew went to race in their nationals a few years ago. Apparently she couldn't do a thing right on a boat that was at the back of the pack.
Which is pretty far from an accurate description of her and her skill level. She has not been back.
fantasia7628
Well-Known Member
If it is the fleet that I think it is. I did not see them enter or leave the marina, but they were very sociable and invited us to join them for a welcome drink on the pontoon after we finished racing our Victories (another clue there). Although there is never an excuse for the bad manners that the OP described.
Houleaux
Well-Known Member
In defence of instructors, I thinks this illustrates the dilemma they face when teaching berthing alongside. Whilst all students would naturally like to get plenty of practice at maneuvering in tight situations before going it alone, those of us with boats in marinas might not be so keen if it was our boat in the adjacent berth!
A pontoon - perhaps a longish one - with no other boats in close proximity allows many of the skills to be taught without risk to others' pride and joys. It can be approached (and left) with the wind blowing you on; blowing you off; at right angles with a 90 degree turn at the last minute to simulate a finger pontoon etc. Students can also be told to aim to stop alongside at a specific point - as for when berthing between boats on a long pontoon, or bow in alongside a finger pontoon.
Better still, of course, is a finger pontoon with no boat in the adjacent berth. They're not always available though...
As to the OP - I find it amazing that people can be so rude and inconsiderate. We're all capable of making mistakes, but the least we can do is apologise / cough up (if necessary) when we do.
maby
Well-Known Member
I can see the theoretical truth in that, but in our case we went back to the same sailing school and booked a day of own boat tuition when they gave us another of their instructors who spend the day teaching us "bump and grind" as the school administrator described it. We had so many fenders out that it would have been impossible to do any damage!
Houleaux
Well-Known Member
Yes. But then it was your boat and presumably, therefore, your problem and your insurance policy if any damage was caused!
maby
Well-Known Member
Quite true.
Seajet
...
Rather than sailing schools experienced people at my club are always willing to go out for a day or two and instruct on picking up moorings, Man Overboard, reefing, going alongside pontoons etc.
It may not get a certificate but it's a good start; I think this combined with a night school navigation class and some playing in dinghies then reading is all most people need.
It may not get a certificate but it's a good start; I think this combined with a night school navigation class and some playing in dinghies then reading is all most people need.
maby
Well-Known Member
It will certainly do the job but, unfortunately, will not cut much ice with your insurance company. I know that you've been sailing for years but for us relative noobies, a Dayskipper certificate gets a decent discount.
