I Can’t Believe It’s Not Coppercoat!

Correct me if I'm wrong

CC et al need be applied to clean gelcoat, or something like Interprotect. One can grind off old AF oneself, but I've been told (and can imagine its true) its an horriific task and you need wear decent protective gear, including face mask. An alternative is soda blasting and I've been quoted around A$3,000 (which is about Stg1,800). I'm guessing that after soda blasting (and there are other techniques) I think I'd want to fill and fair any damage and put on some more Interprotect.

Frankly I found this all a bit daunting.

AMC would increase sales if they made the prep part easier - but maybe they do that via their applicators.

If I were buying from new - I would not hesitate but have CC put on. It seems to work out at 3-4 times the cost of AF, so after 4 years I ought to be ahead and if it did not work (as well as I hoped) I could apply an ablative on top without too much financial loss.
 
The idea is that if doing by hand you take the old AF off wet, or damp. There is then minimal dust - but its still pretty awful - especially if the hull has been coated with years of a hard AF (as opposed to an ablative).
 
Neeves said:
Correct me if I'm wrong

CC et al need be applied to clean gelcoat, or something like Interprotect. One can grind off old AF oneself, but I've been told (and can imagine its true) its an horriific task and you need wear decent protective gear, including face mask. An alternative is soda blasting and I've been quoted around A$3,000 (which is about Stg1,800). I'm guessing that after soda blasting (and there are other techniques) I think I'd want to fill and fair any damage and put on some more Interprotect.

Frankly I found this all a bit daunting.

AMC would increase sales if they made the prep part easier - but maybe they do that via their applicators.

If I were buying from new - I would not hesitate but have CC put on. It seems to work out at 3-4 times the cost of AF, so after 4 years I ought to be ahead and if it did not work (as well as I hoped) I could apply an ablative on top without too much financial loss.
Click to expand...

Soda-blasting is the answer. I've just done that, 'Bruce', and you're quite right - it makes a bit of a mess. But not nearly as much as I'd imagined. My boat is cradled at home, and I didn't use plastic screens as recommended, but the used soda medium dissolves swiftly, so 20 mins with a hose is most of the answer. Or English summer rain.....

I can recommend you explore renting the kit and DIY. Isn't that the 'Strine Way? There's a bit of a learning curve, but if I can.....:D
 
I'd always imagined the 'strine way', of DIY, was some genetic throwback to the mother country - in my case its motivated by a strong presbyterian background of Scots thrift.

But, it had never broken into my consciousness that the kit could be hired (and here it might not be possible) - but now you mention it, I'll have a look. The Lucky Country might need to learn a(nother) lesson or two. Not too sure about English rain though, Quarantine probably will not allow its import - they are very strict, especially if its something really exotic.

Now that you've done the soda blasting, whats the next step(s)?
 
Neeves said:
I'd always imagined the 'strine way', of DIY, was some genetic throwback to the mother country - in my case its motivated by a strong presbyterian background of Scots thrift.
Click to expand...

Amen to that! :D


Now that you've done the soda blasting, whats the next step(s)?
Click to expand...

This is chust a little premature, for I've just about finished and have several tidying-up tasks still to do, but here goes a 'starter-for-ten'...

I've stripped back to a layer of what I presume is VC Tar - which is well-adhered in most places. I've also uncovered some repair-patches on one side which suggest the boat was aground, on her side, on a shingle/shell bank at some time. The gelcoat scratches-patches were repaired with some epoxy preparation, then overpainted with layers of antifoul paint. There are a few small dings and scrapes I will need to fill.

Then I'll need to go over everywhere with an orbital sander, with scouring pads, to ensure 'feathered edges' where bits have been loosened and to ensure a good 'key'. That may have to be repeated later.

The next job is overcoating with an epoxy barrier coat, which will also serve as a 'tie coat' for the next layers.

After that, I'll slather on 2, maybe 3, coats of good antifoul paint, doubling up on the leading edges and along the waterlines.

Then, mayhap, the boot topping x 2.


"No plan survives first contact with the enemy" - FeldMarschall Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke
Click to expand...
 
Bilbo,

You might have posted it earlier but after all that investment in time and effort, certainly lots of effort, you are not going to put on CC, or something like it?

I might have found that renting soda blast kit is not that unusual, but I'll wait and see.
 
I would certainly have liked - would have preferred - to paint on Coppercoat IF I had been able to get back to a pristine gelcoat and IF there had not been evidence of a degree of earlier damage repaired with 'who knows what'. Besides, the boat is in my yard, far too many expensive miles from an experienced CC applicator, and I would need to do the job myself.

I asked around lots, queried on here, consulted as widely as I could and did as careful a 'cost/benefits/risks' analysis as I was able, with other decision-making techniques, and came with regret to the conclusion that, while I could afford the CC if it turned out to be as good as advertised on MY boat, should it turn out to be a disappointment or not significantly better than the competition then I couldn't afford it.

I defaulted to the 'higher reliability of success and lower initial cost' position.
 
Bilbo,

I've not gone into it, CC, in as much detail as you but the concensus I deduced was that DIY was quite possible (though your weather might make it a long drawn out process) and that its usefulness seems to have a largely positive feed back. I know there are some who have found CC unsuccessful but they do not seem vocal. So on the basis that most people post positively - it seems to work.

As mentioned the cost of the remedial work for me, soda blasting, see below, etc etc makes it very marginal for me and given that I do not mind AFing - I'll probably not bite the bullet. I'm also of the view that I'd still need to slip annually to treat the prop, change anodes and wipe down (or lightly abrade) the CC - so the savings are only in the cost of the AF itself and maybe one day saved on the hard. It would be a very different calculation if we had done it from new.

I also recall it said that CC removed the necessity to use something like Interprotect (though despite my parsimony) if I were doing it I'd use Interprotect (or something similar) as I like the belt and braces approach. In your case if you are putting on a barrier coat - it could just as well be CC? But as you mention, in your case, you do not know what has gone on prior - AF hides a multitude of sins.

I have had a reply on Soda Blast hire - A$2,000 (stg1,300), per week (or buy outright, excluding compressor at $16,000) plus the cost of the soda at $3,000-4,000 (stg2,200/t). The cost of bringing in a couple of guys to do it seems a bargain! But the equipment hire costs look steep? (but maybe its an overengineered or dual purpose bit of kit and is actually for something a bit more severe (like sand/garnet-blasting?) and I have not asked around to see how much others charge.
 
Hi all
Interesting discussion I am new to the world of keel boats having sailed racing dingies for most of my life. The boat that I have just acquired is a 23ft trailer sailor with a lift keel and will spend most of its time on the trailer with maybe a maximum of two weeks afloat at any one period.
Will I need anti-foul ? or can I just use a good water based epoxy on the bottom and give the boat a good wash off after use.
Thanks Paul
 
paul.b said:
Hi all
Interesting discussion I am new to the world of keel boats having sailed racing dingies for most of my life. The boat that I have just acquired is a 23ft trailer sailor with a lift keel and will spend most of its time on the trailer with maybe a maximum of two weeks afloat at any one period.
Will I need anti-foul ? or can I just use a good water based epoxy on the bottom and give the boat a good wash off after use.
Thanks Paul
Click to expand...

Should the periods afloat/ashore reflect what you've posted, I'd think you will have no need for antifoul paint, for your routine 'wipedown' or washoff should certainly remove any incipient growth-beasties.

A domestic-type powered car washer with an attached bristle brush should prove satisfactory. There, you've saved yourself time, money and effort.....

I wish my task was as easy. :rolleyes:
 
I haven't time to read all the previous posts so this is probably out of context now but my boat hull has just been blasted and gel shielded so I enquired about copper coating and everyone I spoke to in 4 boats yards owners and workers said don't do it!

Reasons given were it needs to be kept in a decent moving current to work, you have to etch, scrape, sand etc the surface each year anyway to expose fresh copper so may as well slap some paint on for the labour it takes and it doesn't justify the cost.

I think if you do your own work then anti-foul, if you pay someone to do the work for you then maybe Copper Coating is worth looking into. As far as keeping weed/foul off it appears to be no better than ant-foul.
 
Zagato said:
I haven't time to read all the previous posts so this is probably out of context now but my boat hull has just been blasted and gel shielded so I enquired about copper coating and everyone I spoke to in 4 boats yards owners and workers said don't do it!

Reasons given were it needs to be kept in a decent moving current to work, you have to etch, scrape, sand etc the surface each year anyway to expose fresh copper so may as well slap some paint on for the labour it takes and it doesn't justify the cost.

I think if you do your own work then anti-foul, if you pay someone to do the work for you then maybe Copper Coating is worth looking into. As far as keeping weed/foul off it appears to be no better than ant-foul.
Click to expand...

I think CopperCoat's defence to that (can't find the quote now) was that there have been many other attempts at marketing copper/epoxy mixes - some of which have just not been that effective - which has mired the CC brand.

I'm convinced CC have got it right, which is why it makes sense to make your own where legal to do so, given the basic ingredients.
 
The CC on Rampage was put on to a new hull and keel (in 2000). At some point, the keel coating started to give problems, so it was painted with conventional antifoul and rust spots started to break through; I took the keel back to bare metal this winter and repainted with conventional AF. As for the hull, we abraded it this year for the first time since buying the boat 4 years ago and the protection against growth is markedly better; we will repeat when we next haul in winter 2013. CC has been revalation to us compared with conventional AF in terms of defeating most of the hard growth; it works. Nothing will stop the slime but a quick scrub either on the hard or using scuba gear removes any real problem during the season.

A couple of winters ago, I applied CC along with a few mates to an 11m boat. It took most of the day using a team of 4 - 3 painters and a mixer. Hard work as the copper content makes for a very heavy roller. But it doesn't need 'experts' to apply provided you follow the instructions on the tins..... The key is to apply to a well keyed gel coat; the resulting finish from blasting to remove the old AF is just what is wanted.

As for a do it yourself approach to making the stuff up, it makes sense to me and should be a lot cheaper than the real stuff. Provided you don't try and sell on to someone else, you would avoid any problems with patents and the like. Let us know how it goes.

Oh, and having taken a cast iron keel back to bare metal, good luck with using a grinder to take a GRP hull back to gel coat. You're looking at a lot of hard work to say nothing of the chances of putting a disk through the fibre layers.....
 
Last edited:
copper free antifoul

G'day all,

I stumbled across this discussion whilst searching for copper-free antifoul... not sure about the antibiotics drift but it was interesting! And besides, I very much doubt copper based antifoul is less harmful to the environment/food chain and don't forget it is already banned in some places (eventually to be banned worldwide btw).

soda blaster - you can make one for less than AUD $500 inc compressor - plenty of youtube vids/websites with info "DIY soda blaster"

Copper-free Antifoul - can someone please point me towards either a UK distributer for Pacifica Plus (or at least let me know what it's UK name is please)

or towards any other copper-free antifoul paint

or a DIY copper-free antifoul technique (maybe not with antibiotics though ;-)

Cheers,
Wolf
 
Wolf,

I'm not sure of equating copper based AF with an antibiotic dosed AF (and the introduction of antibiotics to the thread was, I hope, an aberration) but in answer to your query on non copper based AF:


3 of which I know Trilux 33 (International) and Mille Dynamic Alu by (Hempel). Wattyly/Valspar/Sigma have Seapro Plus 100. If you have big pockets, PropSpeed. And for something completely different try sonic AF, check for an Australian coy called Jaycar who sell 'build your own' kits.

I cannot vouch for any of them.

There must be a few others.

You might get more focussed replies if you advise why you want something that is not copper based.

But thanks for the suggestion on Soda blasting.
 
At the University where I work we switched from making printed circuit boards by etching to using a milling machine. One reason for this was because we were getting charged so much for disposal of used etching chemicals. I have since come to realize that what we were actually doing was paying someone to take away the basic material I'd need for DIY antifoul! :mad:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top