I am no eco warrior but

MartynG said:
This year my wife knitted poppies. We have kept them for next year. Made a donation but didn't take anything.

People who discard rubbish into watercourses and hederows should be shot.
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The knitted poppies are a very good one I think.

You are being too kind to the litter louts, I would give them very long community orders to tidy the country up and work segregating recycled waste, it would have the effect as shooting - they wouldn’t litter anymore.
 
Assassin said:
Wholeheartedly agree, but remember the green agenda is totally at odds with a throw away society and this is a major problem with consumerism along with profits, in many cases buying quality is the best way forwards and this bucks the trend of the throw away society and consumerism along with profits.
I also collect and restore classic cars and lorries and many of the parts cannot be bought new and you have to use engineering ingenuity to repair them and it is this type of ingenuity which can be applied to many aspects of life generally, but many people simply cannot be bothered.
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The much slated car was historically a great example of good green practice before anyone had heard of recycling. People kept there cars going because they fixed them from parts from a scrap yard. I don’t think many young lads nowadays could even change the spark plugs. Nowadays those that work on their cars buy new go faster bits to replace perfectly serviceable parts that get binned.

It is probably a good thing we are not all driving around in old bangers and obviously modern cars are much kinder to the environment but it is at the cost of loosing the make do and mend society.
 
Tink said:
It is probably a good thing we are not all driving around in old bangers and obviously modern cars are much kinder to the environment but it is at the cost of loosing the make do and mend society.
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It is more environmentally friendly to run an old car because the pollution caused by making a new car is far greater than any ongoing emissions from the old car.

Cars these days have a potential to carry on in use far longer than was the case years ago. Cars of the 60's and 70's were rotten within 10 years while modern cars seem to go on much longer. Also engines these days are good for much higher mileage .The government has encouraged new car buying and perfectly good cars have been crushed though a scrappage scheme. It would be better to subsidise refurbishment of 10 year old cars to keep them going another 10 years.
 
MartynG said:
It is more environmentally friendly to run an old car because the pollution caused by making a new car is far greater than any ongoing emissions from the old car.

Cars these days have a potential to carry on in use far longer than was the case years ago. Cars of the 60's and 70's were rotten within 10 years while modern cars seem to go on much longer. Also engines these days are good for much higher mileage .The government has encouraged new car buying and perfectly good cars have been crushed though a scrappage scheme. It would be better to subsidise refurbishment of 10 year old cars to keep them going another 10 years.
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Interesting point, and one reinforced by facts as the only survey into this actually turned Government claims on their head, they claimed that only 20% of total vehicle emissions were from the construction and disposal of a vehicle and the remaining 80% were" in service" emissions and this survey showed the opposite was true, it showed that 80% of emissions were produced in the production and disposal of a car and the remaining 20% of emissions were in service emissions, and still ministers quote this incorrect information as fact when it is cr*p.

It went further, it showed the most environmentally vehicles were classic cars, followed by large 4X4's due to their long lives and propensity to use the greatest number of recycled and remanufactured components, and the worst polluters were actually electric cars.

It was published in many car magazines and I initially read it in What Car so it should be in their archives if you want to read it for yourself.
 
Assassin said:
Interesting point, and one reinforced by facts as the only survey into this actually turned Government claims on their head, they claimed that only 20% of total vehicle emissions were from the construction and disposal of a vehicle and the remaining 80% were" in service" emissions and this survey showed the opposite was true, it showed that 80% of emissions were produced in the production and disposal of a car and the remaining 20% of emissions were in service emissions, and still ministers quote this incorrect information as fact when it is cr*p.

It went further, it showed the most environmentally vehicles were classic cars, followed by large 4X4's due to their long lives and propensity to use the greatest number of recycled and remanufactured components, and the worst polluters were actually electric cars.

It was published in many car magazines and I initially read it in What Car so it should be in their archives if you want to read it for yourself.
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That is very very interesting, I will be looking at that. I read a study about electric cars in the USA and it said pollution per mile vs IC engine was only positive in a few states when electricity generation was factored in. It is a very complex task but true cradle to grave calculations need to be made for many ‘green’ initiatives. Part of the issue is they can be easily biased based on who’s doing them. Offshore windfarms have to be suspect, steel coming from China to make them, specialist ships all made to install etc.

10ish years ago I was working for Flymo, we had the idea of a lawnmower that collect grass into a biodegradable bag. We looked at, nationwide, what the councils did about recycling green waste. At the time the Government had set recycling targets based on weight of material collected. One of the materials that could be counted was grass cuttings, this was win win for the councils. Grass cuttings are heavy, great easy to hit targets. Provided there is no food contamination grass cuttings can be just composted in the open, easy and cheap just give every household a grass bag. So councils hit their green targets by collecting transporting and composting grass the the vast majority had easily composted at home. I do hope that this on longer true.
 
Does this all mean leisure boats are evironmentally sound because they usually have a long service life?
 
I feel education and transparency are what is required. We can’t do without plastic, our economy is based on it, without plastic packaging the cost of our food would be massively increased and fragile goods also. The amount of food that has an increased sellable window and fresh life is the issue. Let’s not forget this planet is overpopulated by a factor of three at least with regards to sustainability. There is an interesting TED Talk by David Katz and his Plastic Bank. Again it is education, waste plastic need not be a nuisance but be recognised as a a commodity when used and disposed of accordingly. Education is required so consumers can apply pressure on manufactures et al to limit the amount of times they package an article. If anyone buys a Nerf gun or similar this Christmas will find it has a cardboard box, PET shell, polyethylene bag and plastic covered wire twists. You’ll need scissors, wire cutters, Stanley knife and a Kango breaker just to unwrap it. It’s just not necessary but won’t change without pressure( not sure how to go about it) and this is just one example of over packaging. Went on a beach clean up here with some local ‘concernies’ and have to say it was thoroughly enjoyable. We spend a lot of our time coasteering from the boat and the plastic trash is definitely increasing but without a doubt the biggest culprit is the water bottle and pop bottle. Once upon a time it was acceptable to smoke everywhere and then drive home with too much beer in side you. Doesn’t happen much these days because the culprits are seen by most as a social pariah, this is due to education and awareness. Transparency with regard to the economy of recycling is required. A pal of mine who was involved in waste disposal says it is quite shocking how much local authorities collect, sort and then send plastic to landfill because there are not enough outlets for it. Think of the cost of this , its a double whammy. If the infrastructure is in place the amount of plastic rubbish in our oceans and landfill will reduce because people will want to do something with it. As boatists we see this first hand and I applaude the forumites here who choose to do something about it.
I hope this thread continues.
On another but sort of related topic if anyone is interested look up Bren Smith and his 3D ocean farming.
 
CLB said:
I once came across quite a large clump of netting floating mid channel. Thinking I would do the right thing, I brought in onboard with a view of disposing of it ashore.

When I dragged it onboard, my deck was alive with fish and a mixture of invertebrates that had made it home. I chucked every live thing I could find back overboard, but I don't imagine they survived long without the protection of their 'home'. Was what I did good, or bad thing on an environmental level?
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This is a valid and interesting point , especially in deep oceans which are in essence a desert to wildlife , that is why there is concern in regards to the plastic waste circle on th Pacific as it creates artificial floating reefs and will have a large and diverse abundance of life under it , which would never be found in open ocean. .
A dilemma to be worked out by more intelligent people than me but worth considering.

But plus 1 for taking something home and recycling it to OP. by starting somewhere and small we can create a movement,
 
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