Aja
Well-known member
Re: slightly modified
Erm... Is that not how the fire service started?
Erm... Is that not how the fire service started?
I am a simple soul
- Thread starter claymore
- Start date
Rabbie
New member
Sorry Claymore ma auld pal. On second thoughts, no, I'm not sorry at all. For a start, having been away for 2 weeks and having read this, I wonder what on earth all this has to do with yachting gossip?. I have read a few of the posts and I am astonished at the ignorance shown here of a firefighters duties/loyalty/unstinted bravery that is printed here. But thats nothing new on this forum. For example,have a go at it and see what its like just to don breathing apparatus, let alone go into an inferno wearing it, then lets hear your criticism of these heroes. They are worth every penny they demand - even though we (and they) all know they won't get it.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Rabbie on 19/11/2002 20:31 (server time).</FONT></P>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Rabbie on 19/11/2002 20:31 (server time).</FONT></P>
ponapay
New member
What I cannot understand is why, when the fire brigades sell their vehicles after 3-5 years, the services have not taken them on to replace the Green Goddesses.
I also have no objection to crossing a picket line, the strikers have no legal right to stop anyone nor to hold their employer's equipment to ransom.
The firemen deserve a pay rise but that is what has been offered. They also need to accept modern management techniques and planning.
I also have no objection to crossing a picket line, the strikers have no legal right to stop anyone nor to hold their employer's equipment to ransom.
The firemen deserve a pay rise but that is what has been offered. They also need to accept modern management techniques and planning.
tcm
...
Birth of the fire service
Dunno. Can't imagine it was that orgainsed, nor by insurance companies either, since the main problem would have been that the people who had cheap wooden houses less able to afford insurance than those with spensive stone houses.
However, surely the likihood of things catching fire has reduced of late, what with
1) central heating not open fires
2) brick houses not wood
3) fewer people smoking
4) most of the burnable things having now burned down
SO! i reckon a 40% is much more logical than a 40% rise?
Dunno. Can't imagine it was that orgainsed, nor by insurance companies either, since the main problem would have been that the people who had cheap wooden houses less able to afford insurance than those with spensive stone houses.
However, surely the likihood of things catching fire has reduced of late, what with
1) central heating not open fires
2) brick houses not wood
3) fewer people smoking
4) most of the burnable things having now burned down
SO! i reckon a 40% is much more logical than a 40% rise?
EME
Active member
Fewer people smoking
'You had to remind me, didn't you'
BTW VERY impressed by Aztec's logical approach through this.
I've avoided the debate cos sickening memory from a fireman 'mate' that I played rugby with from last strike was news of first death due lack of professionals. He gloried in it.
Thought that it could have been MY family one of life's lasting memories. I KNOW that he was exception NOT rule ..but....
<font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>
'You had to remind me, didn't you'
BTW VERY impressed by Aztec's logical approach through this.
I've avoided the debate cos sickening memory from a fireman 'mate' that I played rugby with from last strike was news of first death due lack of professionals. He gloried in it.
Thought that it could have been MY family one of life's lasting memories. I KNOW that he was exception NOT rule ..but....
<font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>
tcm
...
Re: stinting bravery
Yet the RNLI crew do heroics for nothing, there's 40 applicants per firefighting job, and truth be told, not many fires at all these days.
Your argument is that bravery=high pay does not follow market logic. Or , if it does follow logic, why stop at 40%?
You personalise the issue, a typical failing of many who discuss public services. The fact that "I couldn't do it" does not set any sort of standard nor pay scale.
Perhps an extra 40% for the time they spend actually fighting fires?
Yet paying firefighters more money will not make them put out more fires, nor will it make them put them out faster.
The simple question is - how much money would you like to trasnssfer straight out of your bank and into theirs? Or perhaps you'd prefer to make the transfer via taxes, sanitizing and even purifying the process?
Yet the RNLI crew do heroics for nothing, there's 40 applicants per firefighting job, and truth be told, not many fires at all these days.
Your argument is that bravery=high pay does not follow market logic. Or , if it does follow logic, why stop at 40%?
You personalise the issue, a typical failing of many who discuss public services. The fact that "I couldn't do it" does not set any sort of standard nor pay scale.
Perhps an extra 40% for the time they spend actually fighting fires?
Yet paying firefighters more money will not make them put out more fires, nor will it make them put them out faster.
The simple question is - how much money would you like to trasnssfer straight out of your bank and into theirs? Or perhaps you'd prefer to make the transfer via taxes, sanitizing and even purifying the process?
tcm
...
Re: french firefighters
do the medical callouts, so are all trained as paramedics. 35 hour week wins them £14,500 per year. Perhaps they also have army accomodation too.
do the medical callouts, so are all trained as paramedics. 35 hour week wins them £14,500 per year. Perhaps they also have army accomodation too.
claymore
Well-known member
Re: stinting bravery
Thats a fine response. My personal bravery is not an issue here - I don't need to prove it as doing so would not really help. I am not a fireman, not because I cannot don breathing apparatus, or am not brave enough to do so - simply because I have chosen to work in education. So its all an irrelevance. My post was not in any way critical of firefighters - my criticism is and remains aimed at the system which sends soldiers into firefighting situations using anitquated technology.
The fact that this is not a yottie topic is hardly relevant either - so many posts are not but the issue does affect us all and judging by the response (180+) it would seem to suggest that it is something which a lot of people have fairly strong opinions/concerns about.
regards
Claymore
Thats a fine response. My personal bravery is not an issue here - I don't need to prove it as doing so would not really help. I am not a fireman, not because I cannot don breathing apparatus, or am not brave enough to do so - simply because I have chosen to work in education. So its all an irrelevance. My post was not in any way critical of firefighters - my criticism is and remains aimed at the system which sends soldiers into firefighting situations using anitquated technology.
The fact that this is not a yottie topic is hardly relevant either - so many posts are not but the issue does affect us all and judging by the response (180+) it would seem to suggest that it is something which a lot of people have fairly strong opinions/concerns about.
regards
Claymore
TheBoatman
New member
Observations
I have been watching this post with some interest and make the following comments:
1. I believe that fireman deserve an increase in pay.
2. Why the hell is the army still using 50+ year old equipment.
3. What are the army going to do with the GG's?
4. Why do they still keep them? What perpose do they serve?
5. If however a firefighter takes on the job then don't come back later claiming you have suffered some kind of brain storm because you had to cut a dead body out of a car and you MUST have COMPO.
To that I would say BUGGER OFF you knew what the job intailed before you joined.
My father drove trains for BR for many years and during that time 5-6 people commited suicide under his train and he always said to me that <quote> "son thats part of the job all I can do is slam on the brakes after that its in the hands of God if the Guy wants to kill himself theres not a lot I can do about it"
He never thought of compo, he just went on about his job and he slept well at night knowing that there was nothing he could have done to avoid it.
At the bottom of it I believe that it is all polictical B***s*it saying that it will put up my local taxes, when the Gov has annouced that it is going to take £500M away from "southern" councils and give it to "northern" councils simply to satisfiy the left of the party. I think Tony still thinks that everyone in the north wears a cloth cap and votes Lab.
You may have realised that I have a genuine hate of all politicitions/Vat men/ inland rev/national statistics officers all of whom seem to want some part of me<s>
Why is that despite the fact we pump X trillions of pounds into some Government run organisation I am being told that its under funded and to "cure" the problem I need to be taxed more to solve it?
signed
One very pissed off boatman
I have been watching this post with some interest and make the following comments:
1. I believe that fireman deserve an increase in pay.
2. Why the hell is the army still using 50+ year old equipment.
3. What are the army going to do with the GG's?
4. Why do they still keep them? What perpose do they serve?
5. If however a firefighter takes on the job then don't come back later claiming you have suffered some kind of brain storm because you had to cut a dead body out of a car and you MUST have COMPO.
To that I would say BUGGER OFF you knew what the job intailed before you joined.
My father drove trains for BR for many years and during that time 5-6 people commited suicide under his train and he always said to me that <quote> "son thats part of the job all I can do is slam on the brakes after that its in the hands of God if the Guy wants to kill himself theres not a lot I can do about it"
He never thought of compo, he just went on about his job and he slept well at night knowing that there was nothing he could have done to avoid it.
At the bottom of it I believe that it is all polictical B***s*it saying that it will put up my local taxes, when the Gov has annouced that it is going to take £500M away from "southern" councils and give it to "northern" councils simply to satisfiy the left of the party. I think Tony still thinks that everyone in the north wears a cloth cap and votes Lab.
You may have realised that I have a genuine hate of all politicitions/Vat men/ inland rev/national statistics officers all of whom seem to want some part of me<s>
Why is that despite the fact we pump X trillions of pounds into some Government run organisation I am being told that its under funded and to "cure" the problem I need to be taxed more to solve it?
signed
One very pissed off boatman
EME
Active member
Re: french firefighters
......and remove wasps nests for free
......and provide booze for whole village on July 14th
<font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>
......and remove wasps nests for free
......and provide booze for whole village on July 14th
<font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>
jimi
Well-known member
Funding
One very valid point here, how on earth can a settlement be negotiated centrally but funded locally? Surely all these services whether it be firefighting,education or health should have national standards, national funding rather than the current mongrel hybrid which is neither fish nor fowl and consequently can neither swim or fly.
One very valid point here, how on earth can a settlement be negotiated centrally but funded locally? Surely all these services whether it be firefighting,education or health should have national standards, national funding rather than the current mongrel hybrid which is neither fish nor fowl and consequently can neither swim or fly.
adarcy
New member
Re: Succinct
Ponapay
Well said Sir
I just cannot understand where all the 5+ year old fire engines have gone - exported, sold to companies even trashed!
The net effect is a national scandal that the Government which knew it may have to rely on the Army and its Green Godesses for public safety in the case of a fireMANs strike deliberately puts everyone at risk by not upgrading the Army equipment. Surely even a clapped out 10-20 year old engine could be easily and cheaply refurbished by the army engineers to be better than a 50 yr old GG.
I agree with your 2 other paras wholehartedly as well
The whole thing STINKS
Anthony
Ponapay
Well said Sir
I just cannot understand where all the 5+ year old fire engines have gone - exported, sold to companies even trashed!
The net effect is a national scandal that the Government which knew it may have to rely on the Army and its Green Godesses for public safety in the case of a fireMANs strike deliberately puts everyone at risk by not upgrading the Army equipment. Surely even a clapped out 10-20 year old engine could be easily and cheaply refurbished by the army engineers to be better than a 50 yr old GG.
I agree with your 2 other paras wholehartedly as well
The whole thing STINKS
Anthony
G
Guest
Guest
Re: I pay taxis
Because the fire engines won't take me home
Because the fire engines won't take me home
EME
Active member
Re: Funding _ Local mess
nor, I respectfully suggest put out fires either
<font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>
nor, I respectfully suggest put out fires either
<font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>
tcm
...
Re: french firefighters
lets get over to france then!
is the universal number for firefighter in france 18?
lets get over to france then!
is the universal number for firefighter in france 18?
tcm
...
Re: what other ancient gear have the army got?
i wonder if they have ancient tanks and even the wherewithal to recreate Mulberry?
i wonder if they have ancient tanks and even the wherewithal to recreate Mulberry?
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Re: what other ancient gear have the army got?
Last time I looked there was still a bit of Mulberry parked in Langstone harbour.
Last time I looked there was still a bit of Mulberry parked in Langstone harbour.
adarcy
New member
Re: Birth of the fire service
Donald is right tcm.
It WAS originally organised by insurance companies. They funded a fire service who turned up and were "obliged" to tackle a blaze if the house had a metal badge from the Ins Co on the front. No badge ? no fire service or maybe started negotiating.
The early Sun and I think Royal badges are now worth a bit.
The point was that you paid the Ins Co and it was in their interest to save as much of your property as poss.
I think towns etc then took over as they didn't want any fire to spread further than was necessary.
Donald is right tcm.
It WAS originally organised by insurance companies. They funded a fire service who turned up and were "obliged" to tackle a blaze if the house had a metal badge from the Ins Co on the front. No badge ? no fire service or maybe started negotiating.
The early Sun and I think Royal badges are now worth a bit.
The point was that you paid the Ins Co and it was in their interest to save as much of your property as poss.
I think towns etc then took over as they didn't want any fire to spread further than was necessary.
adarcy
New member
Re: other ancient gear
Ken
there's more off Normandy if the French will let us have it.
But why do we want it? Can it drive fire engines or "force" them back to work?
Ken
there's more off Normandy if the French will let us have it.
But why do we want it? Can it drive fire engines or "force" them back to work?
jimi
Well-known member
Re: what other ancient gear have the army got?
I think they've also got a CIC with a penchant for embarassing the Defence Secretary by claiming that the fireman's strike is undermining the nations security by its demands on the armed forces! Yet another ploy for more cash for the bottomless unaccountable financial black hole of defence!
I think they've also got a CIC with a penchant for embarassing the Defence Secretary by claiming that the fireman's strike is undermining the nations security by its demands on the armed forces! Yet another ploy for more cash for the bottomless unaccountable financial black hole of defence!