I’ve never owned a headsail roller reefing gear. Now I want two. What do I look for?

Kukri

Kukri

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I’m going to SIBS to have a look.

One for a little boat, and one for a big one.

I’d hope to re-use existing headsails.

What are the things that I need to look out for? What makes a really reliable roller reefing headsail gear?

I would want to be able to change headsails on the big boat ie double luff groove.

Little boat:

Displacement 680 kg; I cannot lay my hands on the fore triangle dimensions but the total sail area is 15 sq metres and I reckon 7 metres in the jib, 7/8 rig

Big boat:

Displacement 22 tons, “I” 18.7metres, “J” 6.28 metres, area of foretriangle 58 sq metres, masthead rig with removable inner forestay.
 
Best reliability advice (over say 10 years) is not to buy Facnor.

If these are hanked headsails you will have to get a luff rope (more likely tape) fitted. Dunno if this is practical or economical esp for the little one

We have been very happy with furlex last 5 seasons. I think most or all big boat foils will have a double groove.
 
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Minn said:
What makes a really reliable roller reefing headsail gear?
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I'd imagine most of the major players - Seldén, Profurl, Harken, Schaefer, etc - have got the engineering to the level where it's pretty reliable, and there probably isn't much to choose between them.
 
I'm not sure you would be able to use your existing sails as reefing sails without serious modification either by being recut to flatten or by the introduction of foam strips. Your sailmaker would be able to advise, but roller reefing sails are specifically cut for the job.

Donald
 
For the "small" boat you can either have a furling gear that uses the luffwire like a Wyckham Martin, but if you want reefing then a solid luff spar type such as the small size Plastimo one will do the job.

The "big!" boat puts you in completely different territory where you have a bigger choice of manufacturers such as Selden, Hood, Harken, Facnor etc. They will all offer double luff grooves and the choice of manual or electric. Sizes usually go by boat length plus maximum luff length. Yours seems firmly in the 35-46' range (at least in the Harken range). Harken like others offer 2 ranges at different price points and obviously the more expensive tend to have better or more features Think you will only discover the pros and cons of each make and model by talking to the manufacturers and dealers (who are usually sailmakers or riggers). I have had two Selden Furlex systems and no complaints about them. They dominate the OE market. However, you will find advocates of most makes as they all produce well developed and engineered products. Much of the success of furling gear comes from having good gear to lead and control the furling line back to the cockpit. Adding Harken roller line guides and a swivelling jamming block to mine transformed it by reducing friction and getting the line to hand at a better angle for hauling. These sort of things are of course individual to the boat.

As to sails, whether you can re-use your existing hanked sails depends on cut and condition. Sails for furling are cut differently and the least change needed will be a new luff and luff tape to suit the foil plus maybe a UV strip on the leech. this may not be economic (or even desirable) if the sail is past its best.

Most sailmakers do packages of sails and gear which usually leads to savings - particularly buying this time of year for next season.

What you are looking for will not be cheap as you have probably worked out already so it will pay to get lots of quotes and recommendations as you will only (hopefully!) do this once.
 
Aja said:
I'm not sure you would be able to use your existing sails as reefing sails without serious modification either by being recut to flatten or by the introduction of foam strips. Your sailmaker would be able to advise, but roller reefing sails are specifically cut for the job.
Click to expand...

Might the boat already have roller furling sails, but the gear is worn out?
 
Tranona said:
For the "small" boat you can either have a furling gear that uses the luffwire like a Wyckham Martin, but if you want reefing then a solid luff spar type such as the small size Plastimo one will do the job.

The "big!" boat puts you in completely different territory where you have a bigger choice of manufacturers such as Selden, Hood, Harken, Facnor etc. They will all offer double luff grooves and the choice of manual or electric. Sizes usually go by boat length plus maximum luff length. Yours seems firmly in the 35-46' range (at least in the Harken range). Harken like others offer 2 ranges at different price points and obviously the more expensive tend to have better or more features Think you will only discover the pros and cons of each make and model by talking to the manufacturers and dealers (who are usually sailmakers or riggers). I have had two Selden Furlex systems and no complaints about them. They dominate the OE market. However, you will find advocates of most makes as they all produce well developed and engineered products. Much of the success of furling gear comes from having good gear to lead and control the furling line back to the cockpit. Adding Harken roller line guides and a swivelling jamming block to mine transformed it by reducing friction and getting the line to hand at a better angle for hauling. These sort of things are of course individual to the boat.

As to sails, whether you can re-use your existing hanked sails depends on cut and condition. Sails for furling are cut differently and the least change needed will be a new luff and luff tape to suit the foil plus maybe a UV strip on the leech. this may not be economic (or even desirable) if the sail is past its best.

Most sailmakers do packages of sails and gear which usually leads to savings - particularly buying this time of year for next season.

What you are looking for will not be cheap as you have probably worked out already so it will pay to get lots of quotes and recommendations as you will only (hopefully!) do this once.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much. Little boat has a Wykeham- Martin type roller but she is used for camping cruising by my offspring and I wanted her to have the ability to reef the headsail as well as the main. So Plastimo + new headsail.

Big boat has hanked everything. Thanks for the very useful advice. I’m a bit un-keen on electric as she goes to windward in a very lazy way; if she can’t chuck it aside and soak the crew she just goes straight through it and soaks the crew... So manual, and thanks for the tip about cutting down friction.
 
Minn said:
I’m going to SIBS to have a look.

One for a little boat, and one for a big one.

I’d hope to re-use existing headsails.

What are the things that I need to look out for? What makes a really reliable roller reefing headsail gear?

I would want to be able to change headsails on the big boat ie double luff groove.

Little boat:

Displacement 680 kg; I cannot lay my hands on the fore triangle dimensions but the total sail area is 15 sq metres and I reckon 7 metres in the jib, 7/8 rig

Big boat:

Displacement 22 tons, “I” 18.7metres, “J” 6.28 metres, area of foretriangle 58 sq metres, masthead rig with removable inner forestay.
Click to expand...

Make sure it has a Harken logo on it
 
bitbaltic said:
If these are hanked headsails you will have to get a luff rope (more likely tape) fitted.
Click to expand...

I think that isn't strictly true. A boat I bought (c28ft) had roller-reefing (Plastimo) with an originally hank-on headsail that had been converted for use on the r/r by means of slugs fitted to the original hank points, and the slugs had cylinders on them of the correct diameter to fit in the luff groove in the r/r foil. I was sceptical, and thought the load on the slugs might overload and deform the foil slot, at least enough to make it harder to slide the sail up and down the track. It worked fine, though.

The sail was a bit clapped out, though, so is semi-retired, and I now use a proper r/r genoa (albeit not quite the right dimensions - its 'borrowed' from another boat), with full luff 'rope'.

Obviously not appropriate for Minn's 'new' long term cruising boat, but might be fine for the dayboat (or for someone else reading this thread).
 
I have Sailspar, though I’m not sure they make gear big enough for you. I like it for two reasons:

The bow of my pretty boat isn’t disfigured by a great big drum of rope. There’s just a single sheave for the endless furling line, much more discreet.

There is no way the furling line can get tangled, jammed or do any of those other disappointing rope tricks. Once round the sheave and back.

The disadvantage is that you have an endless furling line, so two parts running along the side of the boat.
 
Aja said:
I'm not sure you would be able to use your existing sails as reefing sails without serious modification either by being recut to flatten or by the introduction of foam strips. Your sailmaker would be able to advise, but roller reefing sails are specifically cut for the job.

Donald
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Agreed. I think using the existing sails modified will be a disappointing experience.

gdallas said:
I have Sailspar, though I’m not sure they make gear big enough for you. I like it for two reasons:

The bow of my pretty boat isn’t disfigured by a great big drum of rope. There’s just a single sheave for the endless furling line, much more discreet.

There is no way the furling line can get tangled, jammed or do any of those other disappointing rope tricks. Once round the sheave and back.

The disadvantage is that you have an endless furling line, so two parts running along the side of the boat.
Click to expand...

The boat is 22 tonnes. I’m not sure the Sailspar system is big enough.

On very large boats, we’re often talking about hydraulic or electric systems. But look at what the big single handed race boats use as well.
 
Ask about swivel and drum bearing replacement - Facnor say completely non-serviceable. Now on my third Facnor top swivel and second bottom drum on a 2005 boat. The boat does get quite a lot of use including chartering, though not year-round.

It is possible that charterers who wind up genoa halyards bar-tight (thinking this is the right thing to do) is causing the bearing failures. Have now set up halyard and cable-clipped halyard round cleat and added a notice by the cleat. Genoas made for furlers are cut to set correctly without massive halyard tension.

Last month I discussed this with the rigger who was to replace my top swivel (£680 part) for the second time, and wondering if replacing the whole system with another make (£3000-ish) would be worthwhile. The rigger said all the main makes are similar reliability and I might not gain that much.
 
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