Hydrovane and/Auto Pilot

[hisw]

Hi

I am after your collective advice.

I am planning on doing some offshore singlehanded sailing, I have got a below decks Raymarine autopilot but do I need a windvane as well?

The cost of getting a Hydrovane is a lot and for a fraction of the cost, I could carry spare parts for the Raymarine kit.

Has anyone had problems with the electric linear drive? It has been very reliable so far.

Your thoughts would be welcome.....

 

[pvb]

The Raymarine linear drive is one of the most reliable bits of kit on many boats. Whether it was over-engineered in Autohelm days, or whether it's just happy coincidence, the thing just seems to keep on working. The main drawback versus a windvane is that the linear drive requires electricity.

 

[RupertW]

I think we will get one for our Atlantic crossing where we would be exhausted trying to hand steer rather than highly irritated doing it for 2 or 3 days if it failed on a shorter voyage.

I guess my issue is the things which can go wrong in a complex system. Linear drive has been fine but the bolt attaching it to the quadrant sheered last year, the cable to control head from course computer failed, and we had to replace the course computer altogether once ( after I had replaced the fluxgate compass)

So a completely independent system is very appealing for sails lasting weeks not days - and I would be looking for one which could steer the boat if the rudder seized, delaminated or snapped off.

 

[Tranona]

The big selling points of a Hydrovane are that it consumes no electricity, is almost totally reliable and it can act as an emergency rudder should your main rudder fail. The downsides of any electric pilot is the consumption and potential reliability problems. Not necessarily the mechanical drive bit but the electrics.

You will find advocates for both with preference of one over the other. Some prefer a Hydrovane and an electric tiller pilot to drive it when under power.

It really is personal choice based on your confidence in what you choose (plus of course your budget).

 

[Tin Tin]

Hi

I am after your collective advice.

I am planning on doing some offshore singlehanded sailing, I have got a below decks Raymarine autopilot but do I need a windvane as well?

The cost of getting a Hydrovane is a lot and for a fraction of the cost, I could carry spare parts for the Raymarine kit.

Has anyone had problems with the electric linear drive? It has been very reliable so far.

Your thoughts would be welcome.....

We did an Atlantic circuit 11 years ago.
Cetrek autopilot and an Aries windvane.
We only used the Cetrek when we motored for 36 hours (becalmed).
The Aries helmed the rest of the way.
We were glad to have the Aries - electronic autopilots can be quite power hungry when the sailing gets 'sporting' (big waves).
With the Aries we were able to keep the fridge running the whole way across.

We bought a used Aries at a boat jumble.
Used windvanes are offered for sale on various websites on a regular basis (eBay, Apollo Duck, Boats & Outboards).
Have a look round before you buy new.
Also look at other, cheaper alternatives: eg Wind Pilot.

 

[Toutvabien]

I suspect that you will find that you may need each at different times, if by offshore you mean passages of two or three days then I suspect that you will get away the electric autopilot.

If you are doing oceans single handed then the Hydrovane will come into it's own, it will keep steering when everything else is buggered.

 

[geem]

Having wind steering and an electric autopilot is the way to go. Short day passages are fine on the autopilot but when you are at sea for days the wind steering uses no power leaving solar panels to run the fridge and gps. There are lots of wind self steering systems to choose from and if you dont want to pay for a new Hydrovane there are planty of second hand Windpilots, Aries and Monitors, etc, that will do the job. People have their favourites but they all seem to do a similar job. Not suprising that my favourite is the Windpilot cos I have one

 

[hisw]

It is a difficult one, I’ve done a 7500 mile trip with just an auto pilot but with four of us, so if there was a problem we could have hand steered and drunk less tea, but equally I’ve sailed miles with a wind vane.

Having both would be great but does the cost justify it?

I guess if the worst happens one can heave to and get some rest?

 

[wully1]

If I had to choose between them it would be a Hydrovane.

If I was sailing for more than a couple of days offshore it would certainly be the Hydrovane.

Im trying to justify buying another one as I already have a good, solid Raymarine linear drive AP and don’t , currently, intend to be more than a couple of days out. Having both would be perfect and I hope to be there one day.

 

[jdc]

We have both (Raymarine autopilot and Hydrovane).

We hardly ever use the Hydrovane because it simply doesn't work unless the wind is > 16 knots apparent: the rudder is too small and is unbalanced so it just doesn't have the authority. Going upwind it's great and we can sail at around 42 degrees apparent for ever (we did 9 days under Hydrovane like this), but downwind in the trades it's pants frankly: mean time to luffing up or gybing is ~50 minutes. If a wave knocks us off course by more than 15 degrees or so it can't recover.

I contacted Hydrvane who told me it was my fault for having too small a rudder - that it was the one they supplied some years prior didn't worry them unduly - and I must buy a new bigger and better one. But to use that I'll need a new shaft, and if replacing the shaft I'll need new bearings and control head. So actually pretty much all of it. I bought a spare autohelm actuator instead.

 

[hisw]

That’s very interesting, may I ask what boat that is on?

I have been looking for a second hand one but am finding that once it has been upgraded, it is costing more than a new one, due to the prices people want secondhand. Hence the indecision.

It needs to be a Hydrovane as it will be mounted off centre

 

[KellysEye]

For long distance sailing we bought Hydrovane even though we had an autopilot, it doesn't use electricity, eat or sleep so we viewed it as a free crew member.

 

[GHA]

How far are you going? Cross oceans the argument for wind gets stronger, a day or 2 here and there might not be that bad if the LX one or batteries die.

Big plusses for wind are no power needed and if it does break you should be able to get something which works enough fixed with some epoxy and bits of string.

 

[Vegable]

I have both. Cruising with time constraints I find I'm under power for between 60 to 75% of the time. The Hydrovane is superb on a 37' Westerly and sails a much straighter course than we can. This summer our linear drive AH packed up at the beginning of our trip and we had to hand steer for days and nights at a time in flat calms and was a real pain. We tried motoring with the Hydrovane set but it was useless. I haven't had the same experiences as jdc in #10 but he is vastly more experienced than I am and I'd take heed to what he says and ask others about their down wind experiences. I'd certainly recomend both if you have the budget for it. As an aside, if the Hydrovane works off centre (which it does) surely some other types will as well. I've no experience of other windvanes but after years of prevarication I wouldn't be without one now.
As another aside, the duff Autohelm was sent back to Raymarine for repair who wrote it off and offered me a 25% discount on a new one. Contacted Pants my insurance company who said I had a valid claim and gave me 70% of the Raymaine cost. So now I have a brand new one,
Mike

 

[Tin Tin]

That’s very interesting, may I ask what boat that is on?

I have been looking for a second hand one but am finding that once it has been upgraded, it is costing more than a new one, due to the prices people want secondhand. Hence the indecision.

It needs to be a Hydrovane as it will be mounted off centre

Can I ask what boat it is supposed to go on?

Friends of ours also went for Hydrovane because of the possibility to mount off-centre (because of bathing ladder).
And they found it didn't particularly work well for them.
My friend said that if he would have to choose again, he would go for another vane and move the bathing ladder.

I am sure that you are aware that there are limits as to how much off-centre you can install a Hydrovane.

 

[michael_w]

We have both (Raymarine autopilot and Hydrovane).

We hardly ever use the Hydrovane because it simply doesn't work unless the wind is > 16 knots apparent: the rudder is too small and is unbalanced so it just doesn't have the authority. Going upwind it's great and we can sail at around 42 degrees apparent for ever (we did 9 days under Hydrovane like this), but downwind in the trades it's pants frankly: mean time to luffing up or gybing is ~50 minutes. If a wave knocks us off course by more than 15 degrees or so it can't recover.

I contacted Hydrvane who told me it was my fault for having too small a rudder - that it was the one they supplied some years prior didn't worry them unduly - and I must buy a new bigger and better one. But to use that I'll need a new shaft, and if replacing the shaft I'll need new bearings and control head. So actually pretty much all of it. I bought a spare autohelm actuator instead.

My boat came with a hydrovane. I've found it rubbish downwind too, plus its cost makes a complete auto pilot system, including solar panels seem good value.

 

[chriss999]

Fully discussed here (with a lot of amusing chatter as well)

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?465393-Is-wind-vane-steering-necessary

 

[hisw]

Can I ask what boat it is supposed to go on?

Friends of ours also went for Hydrovane because of the possibility to mount off-centre (because of bathing ladder).
And they found it didn't particularly work well for them.
My friend said that if he would have to choose again, he would go for another vane and move the bathing ladder.

I am sure that you are aware that there are limits as to how much off-centre you can install a Hydrovane.

Hi, many thanks for your comments, food for thought.

its for a Nicholson 39.

I have spoken to Hydrovane and they recommend that we would need/benefit from the larger rudder and hence shaft etc.

As to how far, just down to the azores and back, so a ten day passage at most, I guess. Then if all goes well, a bit further.

"Fully discussed here (with a lot of amusing chatter as well)

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...ring-necessary
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?490678-Hydrovane-and-Auto-Pilot/page2#0uOKG53AWtr5s1Yw.99"

With regard to the Jester comments, we are slightly larger with a bigger battery bank. Ours is about 500amp/hrs with 400w of solar so I guess power, is not such an issue, it is more reliability.

But then R K-J sailed some way with nothing more than a balanced boat!

 

[dgadee]

My next door neighbour has just came back from helping to sail from Spain to the Canaries. Battery problems meant that they had to hand steer almost all the way in quite heavy winds. I think your answer depends upon the reliability of your electron production system.

 

[jamie N]

Fully discussed here (with a lot of amusing chatter as well)

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?465393-Is-wind-vane-steering-necessary

Crikey!! Until I read that thread, I was going to suggest that the OP made a DIY Windvane; glad that I didn't!