hydraulic steering replacement

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Frank mellin

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I am having so much trouble with the vetus helm pump on my colvic northener.Cannot stop leak from shaft seal despite replacing twice and checking that shaft is in good condition.
Am thinking of converting back to a teleflex manual system.
Can anyone suggest a suitable kit .I know that they come in various sizes depending on size of engine but not sure if same applies if boat has inboard engine.
Would need cables to be approx 14ft.
 
PCUK said:
You'll hate the sloppiness of cable after hydraulic. Take the pump to a hydraulics specialist and get them to seal it.
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Hi
I would have thought cables would be more precise than hydraulic.At moment takes an awful lot of turns to operate.
Can you suggest a company that could check the pump?
 
simonfraser said:
replacing just the whole pump has got to be simpler ?
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Hi
yes I gues that would be easiest solution but looking at about £600?
Can get a complete teleflex system for about £160.
If I could find a reliable company to check the pump and tell me if repairable might be alternative.(if I can find one)
The boat is not a floating gin palace by any means so trying not to throw too much money at it as several thousand spent last 12 months and I am getting fed up with selling the big issue!
Appreciate your valid comments though.
 
Frank mellin said:
Hi
yes I gues that would be easiest solution but looking at about £600?
Can get a complete teleflex system for about £160.
If I could find a reliable company to check the pump and tell me if repairable might be alternative.(if I can find one)
The boat is not a floating gin palace by any means so trying not to throw too much money at it as several thousand spent last 12 months and I am getting fed up with selling the big issue!
Appreciate your valid comments though.
Click to expand...
Better do the calculations to see what size of cable system to use Its determined by rudder area balance and boat speed you will also need to route the cable which is considerably larger than hydraulic pipes
when the hydraulic system was originally fitted someone had a similar choice and chose the more expensive one why
 
Are you sure it is the seal leaking ?

The Vetus pump on my boat before last had a porous casting just below the shaft, and I thought it was the seal too.

I fixed it by dismantling the pump and then boiled the casing clean in a strong solution of detergent to get rid of all the oiliness. I then ground out the fizzures carefully with a dremel then used aluminium brazing rods to seal the fissures. Ground it all flat and re-sprayed with hammerite special metal primer then white.

Vetus Pump Exploded views & service.pdf
 
superheat6k said:
Are you sure it is the seal leaking ?

The Vetus pump on my boat before last had a porous casting just below the shaft, and I thought it was the seal too.

I fixed it by dismantling the pump and then boiled the casing clean in a strong solution of detergent to get rid of all the oiliness. I then ground out the fizzures carefully with a dremel then used aluminium brazing rods to seal the fissures. Ground it all flat and re-sprayed with hammerite special metal primer then white.

Vetus Pump Exploded views & service.pdf
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I reckon you could well be right.
Question is how to find any porous areas.
Perhaps i coul;d use a dye?
 
superheat6k said:
I vaguely recall that once I had cleaned the paint off the fissures became obvious as bubbles in the casting. A dye penetrant kit might help.
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Ok many thanks.
the thing that is puzzling me is that I fill the pump up ,bleed the system and leave it for several hours....no leak.
I go back to boat next day and fluid is everywhere.
Can it be that the rudder is acting like a pump in reverse when it is affected by the tide and current when the boat is still moored on the pontoon?
and that is causing the pressure in the pump which then starts to leak?
 
No resolution from me other than to say that in my opinion going from hydraulic to cable would be a real backward step. Cables might seem cheaper but they are usually less smooth and nice to use, they wear quickly and if the routing is not good they can be stiff and will need replacing more often. Expense and hassle.
 
Frank mellin said:
Ok many thanks.
the thing that is puzzling me is that I fill the pump up ,bleed the system and leave it for several hours....no leak.
I go back to boat next day and fluid is everywhere.
Can it be that the rudder is acting like a pump in reverse when it is affected by the tide and current when the boat is still moored on the pontoon?
and that is causing the pressure in the pump which then starts to leak?
Click to expand...
I wonder if you are over thinking this, however I wonder if there is a pocket of air rising into the pump which also provides a system reservoir, if this were under pressure the expansion could cause the fluid to flow out of the vent.

If you have an autohelm, the a good way to purge the lines is to set the autohelm to move the rudder one way then turn the wheel the opposite way, then reverse the autohelm and repeat. Keep an eye on the fluid level as you do this.
 
superheat6k said:
I wonder if you are over thinking this, however I wonder if there is a pocket of air rising into the pump which also provides a system reservoir, if this were under pressure the expansion could cause the fluid to flow out of the vent.

If you have an autohelm, the a good way to purge the lines is to set the autohelm to move the rudder one way then turn the wheel the opposite way, then reverse the autohelm and repeat. Keep an eye on the fluid level as you do this.
Click to expand...
Hi,
Thanks for the info.
I didnt realise that there was a vent,its in the side of the cap and what you have said makes absolute sense.
Am I right in thinking that the pump should not be under pressure when idle?
Will follow your suggestion.
Glad there people out there who know what they are talking about!
Many thanks
 
Frank
I had a similar experience with a Vetus pump. As has been suggested your problem is down to air in the system. Bleeding is a 2 person job and instructions are on the net. You can tell if there is remaining air in the system as the helm will feel ‘spongey’ at full lock (either). If still ‘spongey’do it again. I also found it better to leave the system a little more under filled than the info suggests to avoid weeping by the breather.
 
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RobinBirch said:
Frank
I had a similar experience with a Vetus pump. As has been suggested your problem is down to air in the system. Bleeding is a 2 person job and instructions are on the net. You can tell if there is remaining air in the system as the helm will feel ‘spongey’ at full lock (either). If still ‘spongey’do it again. I also found it better to leave the system a little more under filled than the info suggests to avoid weeping by the breather.
Click to expand...
appreciate your comments, will need to follow the instructions on bleeding
many thanks
 
Frank mellin said:
Hi,
Thanks for the info.
I didnt realise that there was a vent,its in the side of the cap and what you have said makes absolute sense.
Am I right in thinking that the pump should not be under pressure when idle?
Will follow your suggestion.
Glad there people out there who know what they are talking about!
Many thanks
Click to expand...
If you only have one helm then it will be at atmospheric pressure via its vent in the filler cap. If you have two the lower will have a sealed cap, the upper acting as the vented reservoir for the system. In this case the lower has the 'head pressure' of the upper helm pump height.
 
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