Hydraulic leak from the outdrive power trim

[Aquafan]

I have been living with a small oil leak from the back of the engine somewhere which shows itself after a run in the bilge.
The VP dealer tells me the engine will have to come out and even then they can't guarantee to locate the leak so better to keep topping up the fluid.
From the small amount of fluid loss it tells me the leak is from the outdrive power trim.
The engine is a VP D6 310 in an Aquador 28C with a DPH drive
Any ideas or do I just have to keep cleaning up the oil and topping up the reservoir?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Isn't the power trim cylinder outside the boat on the DPH? (Part of the transom shield assembly?)

 

[Aquafan]

I am not knowledgeable enough ... you are probably right, maybe it's a pipe union or a pipe chaffed through ....nobody is sure what it is just that I need to top up the power trim reservoir

 

[Gentlemanracer]

I have been living with a small oil leak from the back of the engine somewhere which shows itself after a run in the bilge.
The VP dealer tells me the engine will have to come out and even then they can't guarantee to locate the leak so better to keep topping up the fluid.
From the small amount of fluid loss it tells me the leak is from the outdrive power trim.
The engine is a VP D6 310 in an Aquador 28C with a DPH drive
Any ideas or do I just have to keep cleaning up the oil and topping up the reservoir?

Be good to find out if its engine lubrication oil (gold to black in colour) or hydraulic fluid (red in colour).
Which ever, VP should take no time in working that one out! If it's oil, then your trim hydraulics are excused.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Well, my very rudimentary understanding is that there is a hydraulic power pack in the engine bay somewhere (two, in my case, one between the engines for the starboard trim, and one outboard of the port engine for the port trim). Two relays on top, ultimately controlled by the EVC panel at the helm.

When the relays are appropriately energised, the pump runs; the rest of the time the pack is not active. The hoses from the power pack just go to the trim ram assembly - so that would suggest that your leak is either at the pack, the junction of the pack to the hoses, from the hoses, at the junction of the hoses to the ram, or from the ram itself. Iirc the ram is outside the boat, and if you're seeing the leak inside the bilge, then that would suggest that the ram isn't your culprit.

Have you tried just trimming the leg up and down from max to min extents repeatedly while on berth, and without the engine running, to see if you can provoke the leak? (If it _is_ the ram, you'd see the oil floating on the surface of the water at the back of the boat)

 

[Portofino]

Or it could be power steering fluid ?

Really need an acruate diagnosis and suggest what Jimmy proposes first .
If not provoked try multiple turns L+R and check for leak ?

 

[gordmac]

You get stop leak stuff for car power steering that sort of works, worth a try in the short term?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Or it could be power steering fluid ?

Really need an acruate diagnosis and suggest what Jimmy proposes first .
If not provoked try multiple turns L+R and check for leak ?

Yep. Completely different reservoirs though, steering is just a remote reservoir somewhere above the engine, trim is an all-in-one power pack with reservoir, pump, relays etc. Hopefully the OP knows which one he has been topping up...

 

[Aquafan]

It's pink hydraulic fluid and it's the trim reservoir not steering fluid I have to top up now and again, the leak is not much but I would like it fixed.
I will try trimming the leg up and down without the engine running but it takes awhile (overnight)for the fluid to appear in the bilge

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

It's pink hydraulic fluid and it's the trim reservoir not steering fluid I have to top up now and again, the leak is not much but I would like it fixed.
I will try trimming the leg up and down without the engine running but it takes awhile (overnight)for the fluid to appear in the bilge

Yes, but in normal use you're hardly trimming the leg, right? There's very little actual pressurised hydraulic pumping going on (unless you've got autotrim...?) so by repeatedly trimming from say -6 to +50 and back again you're actually doing much more work than in typical use. It'll take a while for the oil to get to the bilge because there isn't much of it and it takes time to drip down there. What's the access like to the back of your engine - can you lie on top of the engine and get your hands down and around, so you could feel if there was oil present?

 

[Aquafan]

Thank you very much for the advice, it's appreciated.
Take your point about the extra work that trimming the leg repeatedly will mean.
Access to the back of the engine is rubbish and that's the real problem with locating the leak but might just see something by getting down there with a torch and a mirror whilst the leg is going up and down

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I bought one of these yesterday, for a job. It's a bit annoying, because I've already got one that I keep on the boat (which is 850m away from where I am now). They are useful bits of kit, in a use-once-in-a-year kind of a way - ie most of the time you think 'why did I buy that', and then once a year you'll think 'that's blimmin useful'.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/handheld-video-optic-inspection-tool-with-lcd-display-and-recording-n85nh

If you've got rubbish access, then I'd probably have a go with one of these, or there's a cheaper version that just plugs into your laptop (that's the version I keep on the boat).

Have a look at post 23 on this thread and you see why I think they are useful:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?330211-Dropped-a-screw-in-the-water-tank

 

[Aquafan]

That's an amazing tool and to think you found that screw is impressive, and it could well locate my leak and if it doesn't then given my engine access there will be other opportunities no doubt.
The problems will really start when I know where the leak is but when I do its a step forwards
Thanks again

 

[Questor]

The plastic reservoirs are known to crack and seep a bit. Also assuming that the pump sits on top of the reservoir, you may want to check that the nut underneath which secures it is properly tight.

 

[Gentlemanracer]

It's pink hydraulic fluid and it's the trim reservoir not steering fluid I have to top up now and again, the leak is not much but I would like it fixed.
I will try trimming the leg up and down without the engine running but it takes awhile (overnight)for the fluid to appear in the bilge

If it's pink rather than red, then water is probably getting in and diluting it to that colour. The water will turn to vapour hence occasional need to top up the fluid level.

 

[spannerman]

If you have pink fluid then the powertrim oil is contaminated with seawater, we have replaced dozens and dozens of the hoses as there has been an upgrade. Most perish externally allowing oil out and seawater in.
Its an out of the water job as you really need the drive off to get access to the hoses where they connect to the trim cylinders, and you have to remove the exhaust bend and various bits at the back of the engine to get the hoses out.
They go through the transom shield behind the exhaust downpipe at the rear starboard side of the engine so have a look there for leaks and follow the hoses to the pump, although I have never had a hose leak in the engine room its always been external. don't leave it too long or the seawater will ruin the trim pump and they are not cheap.
By the sound of it you need two new hoses, and while the boat is out of the water get the steering hoses checked too, we have done both of these at the same time on 100+ boats.

 

[Aquafan]

Thank you spannerman and Jimmy and everyone, what a great place this is to advice.

 

[oldgit]

Good idea to check the steering fork bushes/seals at same time ?
Pennies to buy and very little additional work if you are moving engines and outdrives anyway.

 

[Gentlemanracer]

If you have pink fluid then the powertrim oil is contaminated with seawater, we have replaced dozens and dozens of the hoses as there has been an upgrade. Most perish externally allowing oil out and seawater in.
Its an out of the water job as you really need the drive off to get access to the hoses where they connect to the trim cylinders, and you have to remove the exhaust bend and various bits at the back of the engine to get the hoses out.
They go through the transom shield behind the exhaust downpipe at the rear starboard side of the engine so have a look there for leaks and follow the hoses to the pump, although I have never had a hose leak in the engine room its always been external. don't leave it too long or the seawater will ruin the trim pump and they are not cheap.
By the sound of it you need two new hoses, and while the boat is out of the water get the steering hoses checked too, we have done both of these at the same time on 100+ boats.

+1 bin there, got the invoice!

 

[chris1955]

I spent 3 years trying to track down an oil leak from the port side D3 in my Sealine S34, it turned out that it was the engine, not the leg at fault... I eventually found a very flexible & patient Volvo man in Marmaris, Turkey who made it his off duty task to find the leak - it annoyed him just as much as me! Turned out to be a gasket around the bottom back end of the engine, and he fixed it.

Now if you want a real pain in the arse, how about the Volvo steering rams... just 4 full replacements and 2 Turkish refurbs in 7 years, and when one goes, you are without steering - nice!! and the Turkish authorities just love you when you put a litre or 2 of hydraulic fluid into the marina!