BarnacleBill
New Member
I am posting this in a quest to obtain feedback from other people's experiences. Please bear with me, this is a bit long, but I think it's necessary background info. The story so far....
In March 2009 I ordered a very well known epoxy/copper antifoul product (Coppercoat) from the UK supplier/distributor (AMC). I also ordered their recommended epoxy primer Hycote 152, of which I have seen excellent reviews. As I am busy with a general refit with the intention of using only best quality products. I am aiming for the 2010 ARC, and the boat could be in the water for 18-24 months. The boat is 29yrs old (no osmosis yet though, thank you David Thomas!) and so I wanted to treat her to continued protection of a reputedly solid antifouling and anti-osmosis system.
After negotiating a price with CC I paid in advance for the products, duly delivered in April, by which time I expected the weather to be fine enough to commence the CC process. To cut to the chase, the third coat of 152 failed to cure. More curious is that it was the bottom third of the tin which failed to cure (ie previous coats from that tin had worked ok, albeit were slightly slow to cure). Weather conditions were perfect. Surface prep and mixing instructions were followed to the 'T'. A fact to which crew members assisting with my refurb will vouch. Remember, it was the third coat and all of us have many years experience working with similar products in marine and automotive applications. We do not screw up mixing epoxy.
The supposed 'expert' supplier stated that if the product failed to cure in 72hrs, it would have to be removed. Having spent 100's of man hours fairing the hull and foils, and applying initial coats to the keel and rudder prior to including the hull, the best they could suggest was to 'scrape' it off. I was not keen on the potential damage this could cause, as the Hycote was set but not solid, ie it was solid, but would take a thumb print, and therefore was too soft to sand properly. I contacted the supplier to request technical help, and an inspection visit. They refused. They stated I had obviously mixed it wrongly. I asked them whether I could over-coat the soft product, if it would eventually cure (they were not sure), and if not, could they advise on a solvent to assist with its removal? They could not provide any advice re a solvent (even though they are 'experts' with 15 yrs product experience). I restated the fact that my preparation and mixing was spot on. At this point I mixed further sample batches, retained a small product quantinty, and the supplier arranged for a courier pickup of what was left of the unused Hycote (over 50% of the Hycote I had purchased...ie a few hundered pounds worth). Surprise surprise, they mixed a sample up on receipt, and lo and behold they said it went off in 12 hrs, rock hard.
Back to the boat: By June we had eventually removed all the unsound epoxy having ourselves sourced appropriate products and solvents. A difficult, messy, expensive, and labour intensive job. Meantime the supplier refused to replace or refund the Hycote. At no time have they accepted the plain truth,-that my 3rd Hycote coat partially failed;- it just did not cure in spite of perfect application conditions. Remember, they said 72hrs. Roll forward 1 month,- test batches still not cured. 2 months, test batches still not cured. 3 months, all test batches cured!
But enough of the technical issues; lets move to (non existant) Customer Service. Basically I was accused of lying, being an idiot, acheiving something that was 'chemically imposible', etc etc etc. I have tried to be very rational, polite, and factually precise when dealing with this company and explaining the issues encountered. I explained I have spent a not inconciderable sum of money with them. At no point have I received any support, customer or technical. I feel abused and fobbed off. In fact I feel robbed! Finally, in a desperate last phone call to seek resolution, I asked them to provide me with their final response within 7 days. To be fair, they rung my company number on the 7th day. Unfortunately, I was not at my desk and they proceeded to rant to a total stranger who happened to picked up the phone "..that they were under no circumstances going to refund or replace any part of the products...".
Sorry for the saga....you can figure for yourselves whether this is the type of company you would want to spend money with. As for the Hycote, has anyone else experienced similar problems? I have been informed* that it is possible for the product to become defective after a long shelf life (Although Hycote is a 3M product, CC use blank tins with no date stamp). In fairness they say they have batch records , although I am not privy to what these are. I have also been informed* that the base part of the 2 pack may settle after a prolonged standing period (even though it has the consistency of bitumen). I queried these points with the CC who said the product has no shelf life and the base, in any case, does not require stiring due to its thick consistency.
Anyone out there had similar experiences with this company (CC) and/or the Hycote product?
ps. Am currently applying Blakes SFE 200 Gel Protect. Whilst I cannot yet vouch for its longevity, it is a positive joy to apply!
*by a third party
In March 2009 I ordered a very well known epoxy/copper antifoul product (Coppercoat) from the UK supplier/distributor (AMC). I also ordered their recommended epoxy primer Hycote 152, of which I have seen excellent reviews. As I am busy with a general refit with the intention of using only best quality products. I am aiming for the 2010 ARC, and the boat could be in the water for 18-24 months. The boat is 29yrs old (no osmosis yet though, thank you David Thomas!) and so I wanted to treat her to continued protection of a reputedly solid antifouling and anti-osmosis system.
After negotiating a price with CC I paid in advance for the products, duly delivered in April, by which time I expected the weather to be fine enough to commence the CC process. To cut to the chase, the third coat of 152 failed to cure. More curious is that it was the bottom third of the tin which failed to cure (ie previous coats from that tin had worked ok, albeit were slightly slow to cure). Weather conditions were perfect. Surface prep and mixing instructions were followed to the 'T'. A fact to which crew members assisting with my refurb will vouch. Remember, it was the third coat and all of us have many years experience working with similar products in marine and automotive applications. We do not screw up mixing epoxy.
The supposed 'expert' supplier stated that if the product failed to cure in 72hrs, it would have to be removed. Having spent 100's of man hours fairing the hull and foils, and applying initial coats to the keel and rudder prior to including the hull, the best they could suggest was to 'scrape' it off. I was not keen on the potential damage this could cause, as the Hycote was set but not solid, ie it was solid, but would take a thumb print, and therefore was too soft to sand properly. I contacted the supplier to request technical help, and an inspection visit. They refused. They stated I had obviously mixed it wrongly. I asked them whether I could over-coat the soft product, if it would eventually cure (they were not sure), and if not, could they advise on a solvent to assist with its removal? They could not provide any advice re a solvent (even though they are 'experts' with 15 yrs product experience). I restated the fact that my preparation and mixing was spot on. At this point I mixed further sample batches, retained a small product quantinty, and the supplier arranged for a courier pickup of what was left of the unused Hycote (over 50% of the Hycote I had purchased...ie a few hundered pounds worth). Surprise surprise, they mixed a sample up on receipt, and lo and behold they said it went off in 12 hrs, rock hard.
Back to the boat: By June we had eventually removed all the unsound epoxy having ourselves sourced appropriate products and solvents. A difficult, messy, expensive, and labour intensive job. Meantime the supplier refused to replace or refund the Hycote. At no time have they accepted the plain truth,-that my 3rd Hycote coat partially failed;- it just did not cure in spite of perfect application conditions. Remember, they said 72hrs. Roll forward 1 month,- test batches still not cured. 2 months, test batches still not cured. 3 months, all test batches cured!
But enough of the technical issues; lets move to (non existant) Customer Service. Basically I was accused of lying, being an idiot, acheiving something that was 'chemically imposible', etc etc etc. I have tried to be very rational, polite, and factually precise when dealing with this company and explaining the issues encountered. I explained I have spent a not inconciderable sum of money with them. At no point have I received any support, customer or technical. I feel abused and fobbed off. In fact I feel robbed! Finally, in a desperate last phone call to seek resolution, I asked them to provide me with their final response within 7 days. To be fair, they rung my company number on the 7th day. Unfortunately, I was not at my desk and they proceeded to rant to a total stranger who happened to picked up the phone "..that they were under no circumstances going to refund or replace any part of the products...".
Sorry for the saga....you can figure for yourselves whether this is the type of company you would want to spend money with. As for the Hycote, has anyone else experienced similar problems? I have been informed* that it is possible for the product to become defective after a long shelf life (Although Hycote is a 3M product, CC use blank tins with no date stamp). In fairness they say they have batch records , although I am not privy to what these are. I have also been informed* that the base part of the 2 pack may settle after a prolonged standing period (even though it has the consistency of bitumen). I queried these points with the CC who said the product has no shelf life and the base, in any case, does not require stiring due to its thick consistency.
Anyone out there had similar experiences with this company (CC) and/or the Hycote product?
ps. Am currently applying Blakes SFE 200 Gel Protect. Whilst I cannot yet vouch for its longevity, it is a positive joy to apply!
*by a third party