HVO

[BoyBlue49]

Hydogenated Vegetable Oil
This is now being trialled in pleasure craft on the canals of Britain.
Rapeseed, palm or virtually any vegy oil. Simply it has hydrogen passed through it creating a chemical reaction that turns veg oil into road fuel for diesel engine vehicles.
As there are no sulphur or phosphorous content the resulting fuel is 90% less polluting than mineral diesel. This could be the golden bullet to save the diesel engine post 2030.
Will we see a supermarket war with Tesco selling Extra Virgin Diesel fuel against Aldi, Sainsbury, Morrison or for the more discerning Extra Extra Virgin Waitrose fuel.
Joking aside, this looks an interesting development. Some longer discussion and information on the DBA forum.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

yay! more deforestation and land repurposing to grow fuel instead of food.

 

[crewman]

Hydrogenated vegetable oil usually makes a solid - it is how they make margarine and similar spreads. Unless they mean hydrocracked vegetable oil - a very different process. This means breaking the glyceride/fatty acid ester with hydrogen whilst normal biodiesel breaks it with sodium methoxide and methanol.

 

[BoyBlue49]

Not hydro, that is water.

Hydrogen, an explosive gas, nothing to do with spread for bread.

 

[Slowboat35]

Not hydro, that is water.

Hydrogen, an explosive gas, nothing to do with spread for bread.

On the contrary, Hydrogen is everything to do with making axle-grease for the culinary use of the gastronomically challenged. That's how you make marge. Bubble hyfrogen through hot fat at very high pressure...

 

[BabaYaga]

Hydrotreated vegetable oil - Wikipedia
It has been widely available in Sweden and Finland for a couple of years. Also now at some fuel pontoons. Approved by Volvo (and others) for use in marine diesel engines.

 

[cpedw]

Those are some bold claims. I'll grant that it leaves fossil carbon in the ground though where does the hydrogen come from? And the big problems of diesel engines are the particulates (soot) and NOx from high temperature burning - both unaffected by this fuel choice.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

My old diesel van ran well on simple salvaged cooking oil, and my son when running out of fuel dived into supermarket and got a litre of cooking oil (rapeseed probably) to get him on his way to garage. Even new supermarket oil is cheaper per litre than diesel in the larger bottles. Slightly less calorific value and old van would only do 72mph on it but 75mph on diesel

Its a bit thick for common rail engines which have higher pump pressure as it can overpressure blow out the injector pump seals which is costly/labour intensive to fix, but can be readily thinned with a spot of diesel or a lighter oil. Does get a bit thick in filter at minus 12 degress and if reclaimed the water needs proper removing as that can freeze in the filter.

Reclaimed oil very ecological. Growing crops to produce oil not very ecological as another monoculture coving the land and plain disastrous if rainforests are felled to clear that land

 

[BoyBlue49]

Those are some bold claims. I'll grant that it leaves fossil carbon in the ground though where does the hydrogen come from? And the big problems of diesel engines are the particulates (soot) and NOx from high temperature burning - both unaffected by this fuel choice.

According to the industry a reduction of 90% of NOx and particulates as there are no sulphur or phosphorous content .

 

[penfold]

Growing anything for the purpose of burning it is ecological and economic madness, therefore I fully expect this to be adopted by US agricultural subsidy whales and lobbied for vociferously.

 

[cpedw]

According to the industry a reduction of 90% of NOx and particulates as there are no sulphur or phosphorous content .

Well they would say that ...
I am 100% confident that NOx production has nothing to do with S or P content; it's all about N2 and O2 and combustion temperature.
I am less confident that there's no S or P in plants; how did they get into oil?

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Well they would say that ...
I am 100% confident that NOx production has nothing to do with S or P content; it's all about N2 and O2 and combustion temperature.
I am less confident that there's no S or P in plants; how did they get into oil?

It is possible that sulphur causes sulphuric acid which in some ways potentiates production of NO, seems unlikely but high temperature chemistry is not my bag. I was only ever low level analytical.

Plants require phosphates in small amounts and cabbages/mustards are notorious for their sulphur content. Thus freedom from these elements in their oil depends upon the production process. They didnt bother to remove from fossil fuel for years so why trust them now?

 

[penfold]

NOx are a product of the temperature of combustion, sulphur or phosphorus content have no impact, although sulphur content will create SOx which are also legislated against.

 

[BabaYaga]

Emissions reductions, other than Co2, according to Neste, one of the HVO manufacturers:
Fine particles: 33 percent.
Nox: 9 percent.
Hydro carbons: 30 percent.
CO: 24 percent.

 

[penfold]

What you burn has little impact on combustion temp and therefore NOx output, so those figures contain snake oil.

 

[laika]

Do we *want* to save the diesel engine post 2030? Having spent the past few days stinking of diesel, worrying about how to remove a potentially leaking fuel tank and replacing perished fuel hoses I can't see why anyone who doesn't see the internal combustion engine as part of a macho gender role identity wouldn't relish the opportunity to replace all that faff with an electric motor and a bunch of batteries once the technology was cost effective.

 

[BabaYaga]

What you burn has little impact on combustion temp and therefore NOx output, so those figures contain snake oil.

Possibly some snake oil (as could be expected from a oil producer).
Hers is a recent independent study (summary in English p. 8-9). Seems the findings regarding Nox are not very conclusive, but a slight reduction compared to fossil diesel in light vehicles without after treatment systems (like most marine engines?). However the report appears to back up the manufacturer's claims regarding particles and HC.
https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1526167/FULLTEXT01.pdf

 

[BabaYaga]

Do we *want* to save the diesel engine post 2030?

Marine diesel engines from the last couple of decades (with fresh water cooling) have potential for lasting a very long time IMHO. Scrapping them prematurely would be a horrible capital destruction. HVO represent an opportunity to continue using them (without the disadvantages of FAME) giving substantially reduced climate impact, especially on sailing boats (which use so little fuel anyway).

 

[PhillM]

I’ve already made the switch. Have gone engineless and will only be able to go where wind and tide take me.

Unless of course you happen to be in a rib or decent sized motorboat, in which case can you please hang around the mouth of the Hamble circa 4 p.m. tomorrow, in which case, yes please, a tow in to save me waiting for the ebb to cease would be marvellous!

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I’ve already made the switch. Have gone engineless and will only be able to go where wind and tide take me.

Unless of course you happen to be in a rib or decent sized motorboat, in which case can you please hang around the mouth of the Hamble circa 4 p.m. tomorrow, in which case, yes please, a tow in to save me waiting for the ebb to cease would be marvellous!

Stick your oar in mate !