Hunter Liberty or Minstrel rudder question

T

Tom Skillen

New Member
Joined
25 Jun 2021
Messages
2
Visit site
Hi folks, after some (endless but fun!) research, I think either a Hunter Liberty or Minstrel would be perfect for my needs, and also my mooring.
I have one concern though!
My mooring is in a very busy & cramped harbour.
When raised, the Hunters rudder protrudes upwards and outwards from the stern by a fair amount.
I think this will make it very prone to damage from other boats squeezing past (and making contact with) my stern area.
So - - - - question is - - - -
Does anyone know how easy or practical it would be to completely remove & then reattach the rudder assembly when afloat (in order to place the rudder within the cockpit whenever the boat is left on the mooring)?
Alternatively, I'm wondering if there's anyway to alter the design or construction of the standard rudder so that it doesn't protrude so much when raised?
Bit of a long shot asking this question I know, but still thought it worthwhile asking given the collective insight & experience on here.
Many thanks for reading / considering this question (and for any experience that can be shared).
 
I assume these have a 'traditional' swing-up rudder like a lot of dinghies?
It can be quite awkward attaching a rudder afloat if much of the blade is in the water, but a lift-up rudder with suitable pintles should be OK.
Many pintle systems are not really designed with quick attachment in mind though.
If the rudder waves about with only one pintle engaged, it can do damage, so be sure whatever you get is easy to use.
A small wave can exert a lot of force which will twist the pintle off the boat if you're unlucky.
An alternative is a 'cassette rudder', where the blade slides vertically in the stock and can easily be lifted right out:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...AAABpg/ZrShuKzale4/w1221-h905-no/CAM00258.jpg
 
TernVI said:
I assume these have a 'traditional' swing-up rudder like a lot of dinghies?
Click to expand...
Google suggests it looks like this
hunter.jpg

so I can see the OP's concern about a crowded harbour.

As well as the Hunter Association, there is also a Hunter Liberty and Minstrel Owners' Association - why not get in touch and ask them if anyone else has found a solution to the problem? There is an email contact address on the website.
 
I know a couple of Minstel/Liberty owners have changed to vertical lift rudders. The owners association newsletters have details I believe?
 
Tom Skillen said:
Hi folks, after some (endless but fun!) research, I think either a Hunter Liberty ...
Click to expand...
I've an interest in cat boats but never heard of these before. There's a few topics here. I found the owners' site, & someone who turned on into a junk ketch, but not much else. Do you know where a review is?

What's the build like?

Rig apart, one thing I really like about them is that the hanging lock/heads is right by the companion way meaning you ought to be able to change out of wets, or discharge yourself, without dragging them all the way through the boat & dripping on everything. Hard to do on a small boat but where is should be.

Is it a drying mooring? Does the rudder need to be raised?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
A blade set into a cassette would seem to be the obvious solution, although a lot of work.
However, one might want to check if there are any mooring rules. It may be that you are expected to leave the rudder down to stop the boat veering about too much. On our moorings we have a rule that all tillers are tied to port. This is to try to get boats that are close together to swing in unision. It does not work well for those of different keel configuration; but does for, say, bilge keels together, or a fleet of squibs etc.
 
I own a Lib 22, currently for sale, on a drying swinging mooring. The benefit of the swing centreplate and rudder is that you have a safety mechanism if you hit something hard! Both kick up on contact, reducing damage. The places you go with a Liberty, this is a common occurrence. You can also easily adjust height for creeping on or off a mooring. Some owners have used a cassette type arrangement, and it is documented and discussed on HLMOA if you join. I have never feared for my rudder, but mines is bright white, and I’m not in crowded area. Paint it orange? I add the rudder length to my swing calculation. The rudder provides an important role as it’s deep, you shouldn’t sail with it part raised, as the stresses are too great for the head stock. I think it may be similar to a Sonata in shape, as David Thomas borrowed a bit from the Hunter parts bin.
 
Looking at that photo, it looks as though you could turn the tiller through close to 90°. If so, I wonder if the easiest solution wouldn't be simply to lift the rudder and tie the tiller off as far to port or starboard as it will go. The rudder might stick out a bit, but much less than straight aft
 
Hi all, thanks for the interest and really helpful thoughts.

The mooring I have is indeed drying, so the rudder must be lifted (so no rules are in place about rudder position when moored).

From what I can gather on the pictures I've been able to view, it doesn't seem possible to swing the rudder blade up (by circa 180%) so that it lies flat against the transom. Wallacebob, would this be an accurate assumption? I guess the question here is how much can the rudder be realistically protected from contact by other boats if the rudder is by lifted as upright as possible with the tiller off as far to port or starboard as it will go (I/e/ how much would it still stick out?).

I also emailed the owners association contact (via their website) a week or so back, but haven't received any reply (hence my reaching out here for the insight & help). I was enquiring about joining and asking for some advice on this topic.

The solution of setting a rudder blade into a cassette that could then be raised in its slot would work. It would be great to get some pics of this and / or speak to someone who's done this modification, so I'll try again with the owners association. GeeW, if you personally know any of the owners who've done this (or know where to source the newsletter that explains this) it would be really helpful (but I quite understand if you don't!).

They certainly look a smashing wee boat, and potentially perfect for my needs and circumstance, but only if I can get a solution to this protruding rudder when moored!!!
 
Given the rudderstock is probably a simple timber sandwich, it shouldn't be difficult to make a replacement stock to allow you to swing the blade up to perhaps 25-30 degrees off the vertical.
 
Wouldn't it be a lot easier to make a sort false bumpkin that you can have sticking out the back - basically a broomstick with a rag on the end or something? Just for use when you're moored up, not a permanent installation.
 
You could make a stainless steel hoop with hinge each end. Attach it to the transom at each quarter. When on the mooring lower it down over the outside of the rudder so it acts like a fender rail. They would hit that rather than hitting the rudder blade. If they hit it hard the boat would move sideways.
Under way just raise it up just like an aft rail. You might even lower it & attach the dinghy to it when towing.
 
We’ve kept our Liberty on a crowded, drying mooring for the last eight years with the rudder raised and never had any damage. If the adjacent boats have similar draft they will all take ground at much the same time. If one boat grounds before the other (and the wind shifts) that is when you are likely to have problems. I lash the tiller to one side of the cockpit and the rudder sticks out at about 45 deg. Nobody has hit it yet!

The Liberty rudder assembly is fairly heavy and bulky. Removing it and stowing it between trips would be difficult.
 
Stemar said:
I didn't mean to swing the rudder up through 180 deg, but to lift the rudder 90 deg as usual, then turn the tiller hard to port or starboard and tie it off.
Click to expand...
Just remembered, it has a rounded stern, not a flat transom....
So casset, which loses the kick up safety, unless the pintal line can hinge, or some way of taking it of easily, maybe with a tackle off the boom to help and some easy to engage pintals.
 
Last edited:
Ship your rudder. I had a Seahawk 17 for a couple of years and always shipped the rudder. Although it was a smaller boat I made a new blade (using a Prelude 19 one ) which was deeper.
The tiller went through the transom so I made a stainless one which slotted into the headstock and was removed before shipping. You wouldn't need to do that as the tiller goes over the transom. Bit more unwieldy in the cockpit though.
The pintles and gudgeons were reversed. One of each on the transom. Set at slightly different heights so the bottom one engaged first, then the the top one was easy to slip into position. I usually raised the blade, but sometimes didn't. I always had a lanyard attached to a stern cleat (just a loop over the cleat). This stayed on the cleat until the rudder was in the cockpit. I stored it in the cabin.

Larger rudder blade. Before and after. I used Iroko.

newrudderbladecomparison.jpg


transomangle.jpg


tiller.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top