Humphree fin stabilizers references

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Nick1122

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Hi Guys,

We planing to retrofit fin stabilizers on Azimut 86s. I had good experience with gyro Seakeeper in past, but unfortunately we don't have any available space in bilge.

At the moment we are in middle of Humphree and Side Power Vector fins, I'm fan of hydraulic, but again space is limited, engine room very tight, and almost impossible to fit additional power pack, also run hydraulic tubes through interiors, all the way to the mid ship, will require extended amount of time and costs.

Does any one has Humphree 24v installed, and could provide references? does it overheats due extended use?
It will be necessary for us to install separate battery supply with battery charger, is 24V will be reliable and not drain batteries very quick so it will be completely powered by charger?

Thank you for comments in advance.


Cheers
Nick
 
There is an article in this month's MBY but it is technically lightweight. First, where it talks of flange mounting - they all flange mount. And second, where they say no moving parts inside - which is absurdly wrong.

You need to be careful checking the noise - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjFEoynDPwI

It's personal choice but I would fit Sleipners. I and my brother have together had 2x sets fitted in new build (one Vector) and retrofitted 2x Vectors, with great performance and zero problems. In ~80foot boats.

Good luck!
 
Nick1122 said:
I'm fan of hydraulic
Click to expand...
Are you saying that based on a comparison between Humphree and Sleipner, or do you have any other technical reason?
I'm asking because at the size of your boat, you can also consider CMC stabs.
They are mostly focusing on even bigger boats, but your AZ86 is just perfect for the smaller version of their equipment.
BTW, they are nowadays the fin stabs of choice for Azimut-Benetti Group, among others.

Though the key factor is in the word "retrofit": by going electric, do you have an idea of how many bits you do NOT need to find space for and install in your e/r?
- pump driven through engine PTO (one each side, for a kosher installation);
- 3-phase electric pump for stabilization at rest;
- VFD unit to drive it (unless you have 3-ph genset, and I bet you don't on an AZ86);
- high pressure expansion tank;
- HP hoses connecting all this stuff, and from there to the fins actuators.

We debated extensively in the past with jfm about all pros and cons of elec vs. hydr (and CMC vs. Sleipner specifically), and the last thing I want to do is revamp those arguments.
Truth is, both systems do amazingly well what they say on the tin, so each to their own on the choice.
But specifically for retrofitting a boat originally built without fin stabs, imho electric remains, quite simply, a no-brainer choice.
Incidentally, ref. your question on running stabs from batteries, you might get in touch with BartW of this parish, if he doesn't see this thread.
He can run the CMC stabs (also retrofitted) of his Canados from batteries+inverters alone - though not for a lot of time of course (surely not overnight, afaik).

Regardless, keep us posted on your project, and all the very best! :encouragement:
 
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Thank you for sharing, I personally would go with hydraulic but for this yacht simply too difficult to achieve, especially since eng. room doesn't have available space. You were right regarding power supply, 2 gen sets, single phase by 20kw each.

Just sent quote request to CMC stabs. Could you advice noice levels on CMC ??
 
Have you tried the boat for a season -various marinas on tour ( stabs ? ) and bays @ anchor --- sans stabs ?
Just wondering where the motivation is coming from ?
How do you use or propose to to use it ?

They will knock a few knots off or add a fair bit to €€ fuel bill on a AZ86 going near full chat .
Your diver will want a bit more too .
 
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The YouTube video showes Humphrees early actuators which had straight cut gears and were a bit noisy! The latest actuators have helical gears and are much quieter. It's probably a good idea to see them in action on a similar size boat. I have been on a few boats with them fitted and really liked the system.

The part about no moving parts inside is only saying that all the moving parts are within the sealed actuator.
 
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in 2013 we have installed CMC electric fins in our 75ft Yacht,
and I can fully recommand these,
for me they are the perfect choice for retrofit, (or also new)
easy installation,
compact and light weight of a total system
less power needed compared to hydraulic
very reliable, zero service required.
and performance is above expectations, during navigation aswell as at zero speed.

we still own the boat and after 4 seasons intensive useage, we still love the stabs,
and didn't have one single issue with them.

We can run the stabs from one genny, total peak consumption is around 8Kw.
During navigation we can run them from the engine alternators + batt's, converting the 24V supply through 2 x Victron 5Kw invertors.
one alternator / invertor / stab motor is connected with engine batt bank, and the other with domestic batt banc, 630Ah each.

at anker we can run the stabs from the batt's,
how long depends on sea conditions and battery capacity.
if this feature is important to you I would recommand Li-ion battery's for the boat.
for now we have old fashion lead batt's, we run the stabs during daytime at anker for up to 2 hours.

re the noise,
our stab motors are in the master bedroom under a cupboard, and NOT in a casing,
the noice is accetable imo, there were occasion that we did sleep in the room with the stabs ON.
best way to know is step on a boat that has them...

It might be possible that CMC is slow in reacting on a (small) retrofit project,
if you tell them that you are serious, you will get good and professional response.
if needed I can PM e-mail adress and tel nr from the CMC owner.

I have a pic somewhere from CMC fins on a 80ishFt AZ,
but that integration was not done nicely, imo, I'll try to find the pic.
I believe that CMC is the preferred system by AZ on new install's. so they must have experiece with your boat model.

here is a report on my retrofit project,
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...el-engineering-question&highlight=stabilisers

don't hesitate to asc more specific Q's
you're welcome to have a look (and test) onboard
 
I had good experience with gyro Seakeeper in past, but unfortunately we don't have any available space in bilge.
Click to expand...
I'm surprised that such a large boat hasnt got space for a gyro anywhere, especially such a recent model which you'd think might have been designed with a gyro in mind. Did Azimut offer any kind of stabs as OEM equipment? How about fitting 2 or more smaller gyros in convenient locations rather then one large unit?

FWIW I'm just having a Seakeeper fitted to my Ferretti 630 and even though its going in the original position where Ferretti fitted their OEM ARG gyro if it hand been specified, there's still a lot of faffing about to do in terms of moving components to different locations
 
Just my 0.02 p worth
If you double your speed air /water =4 x drag
Fine for Bart - in the 19-22 knot range
Fine for JFM ,s bros and MapishM @12-14 knots
Ok ish for JFM 22-26 knot

But you thirty something ? Or near 40 knots ----then the 4 x becomes a serious issue dangling fins -Surley !

Google MC2
Quickitaly.co
For small gyros for 7-40 M designed for retro fit into tight spaces

It's a bit like going to Quick fit and asking them to fit a row bar to a Ferrari --cos you fancy taking up caravaning .

I would expect a complimentary pipe and slipper rack maybe a zimmer frame if you go for fins on a AZ 86 .:eek:
 
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I think you are missing the point and benefit of fins at anchorage which will be the majority of the time they will be used versus passage making.
 
wakeup said:
I think you are missing the point and benefit of fins at anchorage which will be the majority of the time they will be used versus passage making.
Click to expand...

Thats like saying a caravan hitched to a Ferrari -parked up at a site----sure the " van " knows no difference .
But the car will feel the diference @ 100 mph ----dragging that
Or the Az86 @ or trying to cruise in the mid thirties with jets or Arnesons ( op has not specced ?) -WILL notice the drag of Fins ,or accept higher fuel burn and /or higher EGT s ( exhaust gas temp )

Madness-- when gyros - mitigate the 4x drag issues @ anchor ... ?
 
Portofino said:
Fine for JFM ,s bros and MapishM @12-14 knots
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LOL, if you're talking of my old tub, 14kts is a speed she could only reach cruising downstream the Niagara falls! :D

That aside, apologies to the OP, but I'm so used to associate Azimuts to flybridges that I didn't notice the "S" on the model name.
FWIW, on a boat that fast, I tend to agree with Portofino, and I'd rather not have any fins sticking out of the hull - regardless of the technology.
Also because the sea conditions where fins have a remarkable edge over gyros are just about the opposite of the conditions for which any fast boat (even those as large as 86 footers) are designed.

That said, Porto, when you asked "where the motivation is coming from", I wouldn't blame anyone for answering "from the fact that it's a boat, for Chrissake". :D :rolleyes:
A monohull vessel - ships included - whose onboard comfort is not improved A LOT from being stabilized has yet to be built.
 
Thank you Bart, for such complete review.
I'm awaiting quote from MCM, and would be great to have MCM'c owner details too

Thank you and will keep you posted
 
aquatom said:
The YouTube video showes Humphrees early actuators which had straight cut gears and were a bit noisy! The latest actuators have helical gears and are much quieter. It's probably a good idea to see them in action on a similar size boat. I have been on a few boats with them fitted and really liked the system.
Click to expand...

can you tell on what boats you have been with the system installed ?
I'm just interested how they get on with their system,
appart from that Astondoa, its difficult to find meaningfull references
 
Deleted User said:
FWIW I'm just having a Seakeeper fitted to my Ferretti 630 and even though its going in the original position where Ferretti fitted their OEM ARG gyro if it hand been specified, there's still a lot of faffing about to do in terms of moving components to different locations
Click to expand...

good to hear that you byte the bullit,
what yard did you choose in the end ? might have missed some posts
I would be interested to learn / feel the difference between a gyro and fin stab boat.
 
BartW said:
can you tell on what boats you have been with the system installed ?
I'm just interested how they get on with their system,
appart from that Astondoa, its difficult to find meaningfull references
Click to expand...
It was on a sunseeker Manhattan 60 ish and an elegance 74 ish
 
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