BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
It doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't leak. Welding etc. would be a bit academic in a violent storm F11-12
hull material choice for blue water
- Thread starter tim_ber
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It doesn't really matter as long as it doesn't leak. Welding etc. would be a bit academic in a violent storm F11-12
Tranona
Well-Known Member
There is some merit in steel if you are planning to go to areas where there is a good chance of hitting hard things - rocks, coral etc and you want to be able to withstand that better and repair easily. However, most people do not want to do that, and as already said the risks of hitting something at sea are almost non existent - and anyway many of the few examples that have did not sink straight away.
GRP is far and away the best material. It gives you the widest choice of designs, is relatively easy to repair, is durable and will tolerate neglect far better than anything else. Steel does have advantages (as does Ferro) if you are building yourself, although this is nowhere near as popular as it once was - partly because of the availability of perfectly adequate GRP boats at a fraction of the cost of building from scratch (never mind the several years work).
Professionally built steel boats can be attractive, but they are extremely expensive - prrtly because owners stick things like teak decks on them to make them more attractive visually. Lovely when new, but have a look at 20 or 30 year old boats and see the troubles in store for future owners. Utilitarian steel boats can be successful, but you have to accept that few people like them, so values are low in relation to building costs. Again look at older boats that can be bought for very little money relative to GRP boats of similar size and capability.
The "safety" bit is over exaggerated. Cruising, even in the more remote parts of the world is a very safe activity. Boats, gear, communications, sources of help etc are now such that much of the "risk" from the early days has gone away.
GRP is far and away the best material. It gives you the widest choice of designs, is relatively easy to repair, is durable and will tolerate neglect far better than anything else. Steel does have advantages (as does Ferro) if you are building yourself, although this is nowhere near as popular as it once was - partly because of the availability of perfectly adequate GRP boats at a fraction of the cost of building from scratch (never mind the several years work).
Professionally built steel boats can be attractive, but they are extremely expensive - prrtly because owners stick things like teak decks on them to make them more attractive visually. Lovely when new, but have a look at 20 or 30 year old boats and see the troubles in store for future owners. Utilitarian steel boats can be successful, but you have to accept that few people like them, so values are low in relation to building costs. Again look at older boats that can be bought for very little money relative to GRP boats of similar size and capability.
The "safety" bit is over exaggerated. Cruising, even in the more remote parts of the world is a very safe activity. Boats, gear, communications, sources of help etc are now such that much of the "risk" from the early days has gone away.
Ex-SolentBoy
Well-Known Member
+1
Neil_Y
Well-Known Member
Composite hull, with kevlar reinforced bow above and below water line for impact protection, carbon cross beams for rigidity and strength in widest sections, stepped keel to hull joint to transfer grounding loads into hull rather than pushing rear of keel up into hull. That was my choice, a Bavaria.
However I do like the idea of Al, despite the electrloysis issues.
However I do like the idea of Al, despite the electrloysis issues.
William_H
Well-Known Member
Hull material
If you look at boats that are 30 years old however there is no question. Solid fibreglass lasts much better and is not harmed by long term neglect. So the ownership thing beyond just safety in crossing oceans points to f/g as best. olewill
If you look at boats that are 30 years old however there is no question. Solid fibreglass lasts much better and is not harmed by long term neglect. So the ownership thing beyond just safety in crossing oceans points to f/g as best. olewill
jonic
Well-Known Member
I don't think there is a right answer here.
if you want a metal boat then Aluminum has to be high on the list.
But a strong GRP boat is a great all rounder.
Concrete and steel (Ferro) is pretty tough too!
if you want a metal boat then Aluminum has to be high on the list.
But a strong GRP boat is a great all rounder.
Concrete and steel (Ferro) is pretty tough too!
jwilson
Well-Known Member
Not S/S - bad for use underwater as it relies on oxygen to keep it from corrosion. If you want to spend a lot on a custom built boat try cupro-nickel. Strong, doesn't rust, doesn't need antifouling. Or buy a boat made of something else and go sailing.
Conachair
Guest
Steel is normally insulated above the waterline so no issues with condensation. I´ve never lived aboard grp but condensation seems to be a big problem for many over a cold winter.
The answer to the question is there is no answer, I´m afraid. Anyone who says "X is the best material for a blue water hull" is talking b*llox. A blue water boat is just one huge mass of compromises as it has to be so many different things at the same time. Your call at the end of the day, everyone has an opinion.
I went for steel which has many benifits and many down sides. If you keep on top of the maintenance it´s not too bad, let it slip a bit and you pay the price.
The offshore safety bit is hard to answer, not enough data really to get a handle on. A more important question might be "How much am I going to worry about hitting something every day for weeks on a long passage?"
I asked around before buying about sister boats to the one I got, in one season 4 boats hit whales coming back across the Atlantic, 2 sank, 1 limped into Bermuda and the steel one really p!ssed off the whale without a scratch
I worry about many things offshore and getting holed is there, just not at the top of the list.
Conachair
Guest
Don´t kid yourself about that one. Most of the world you are on your own unless you don´t mind hitting the epirb and losing the boat.
ffiill
Well-Known Member
Steel because firstly it can stand deformation that is it can get dented and secondly if you carry a small oxyacetylene portapack gas welding set up ;a a few bits of suitable plate angle etc plus an angle grinder; you can stick it back together anywhere anytime-even in the water!
tinkicker0
Well-Known Member
For serious cruising and that mid ocean security you are looking for, might I suggest one of these:
No such thing as security on any small craft while at sea.
No such thing as security on any small craft while at sea.
davidej
Well-Known Member
For serious cruising and that mid ocean security you are looking for, might I suggest one of these:
No such thing as security on any small craft while at sea.
And it is made of...........err.............steel?
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Thats the point. Unless the boat sinks instantly (highly unlikely) the chances of getting help - or at least telling people where you are - has increased dramatically since the introduction of EPIRBs. Of course that does not necessarily translate into a successful rescue. So having a self preservation strategy is still essential.
jonic
Well-Known Member
For serious cruising and that mid ocean security you are looking for, might I suggest one of these:
No such thing as security on any small craft while at sea.
Yes but is it VAT paid?
Conachair
Guest
Ah, I thought you meant local help. Which isn´t something to rely on in a lot of the world.
Epirb is game over.
I did hear once of a titanium boat, made from left overs out of a Russian sub factory.
Ben Dockrell 22
Well-Known Member
Still think concrete myself, good thick concrete hulled large boat. The outer area would have concrete bars along the hull area. Bit like a car with bull bars but much bigger. not built for speed just for safety unless someone collides with you in a grp of course, if your not awake at the time you,d probably not hear or feel the bump
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
>Steel is a very forgiving material and inherently robust, hence very good choice for long voyages.
I agree but I would because we have a steel boat. We also considered Aluminium and and heavily built GRP boats such as Bowmans. In the Canaries we saw a steel boat with a three foot deep large round dent in the side, it had been hit by the bow bulb of a ship and was dismasted. It only destroyed the furniture behind the dent. On that basis I would choose steel again.
If you go long distance sailing it's only a matter of time before you hit something or something hits you. We got hit twice and only had to repair the chipped paint. One of them would have punched a hole in a lightweight GRP boat, a monster wooden pirogue doing about 15 knots that T boned us because he couldn't get his engine out if gear.
I agree but I would because we have a steel boat. We also considered Aluminium and and heavily built GRP boats such as Bowmans. In the Canaries we saw a steel boat with a three foot deep large round dent in the side, it had been hit by the bow bulb of a ship and was dismasted. It only destroyed the furniture behind the dent. On that basis I would choose steel again.
If you go long distance sailing it's only a matter of time before you hit something or something hits you. We got hit twice and only had to repair the chipped paint. One of them would have punched a hole in a lightweight GRP boat, a monster wooden pirogue doing about 15 knots that T boned us because he couldn't get his engine out if gear.
prv
Well-Known Member
I tend to lean towards steel too for long-distance cruising, but I don't have any experience of steel yachts. How much maintenance is really involved?
Pete
DanBurrill
Active Member
As others have mentioned, all materials have advantages and disadvantages, you need to pick the one that suits your needs best.
Personally, I'd suggest that a well-maintained steel boat is probably the most easily available and cost-effective option. If you can find a good ferrocement one (and they do exist), then that's another good option. Although both methods of construction can produce heavy boats, if you're looking at anything 40 feet or longer, the difference between heavily built GRP and either steel or ferrocement gets increasingly small and irrelevant. You've already discounted wood, so I won't try to change your mind, although if somebody wants to do blue water in a wooden boat, there are plenty out there that will do the job fine (there's one called Suihaili for starters, although I don't think she's for sale).
If you're worried about hitting submerged objects at sea, then rather than worry about what to build the hull from, why not just get a boat that you like and is generally suitable, and install a forward-looking sonar? The last time I looked £1,500 would buy a top of the line (at least for civilian use) one, and they are available a fair bit cheaper than that.
Personally, I'd suggest that a well-maintained steel boat is probably the most easily available and cost-effective option. If you can find a good ferrocement one (and they do exist), then that's another good option. Although both methods of construction can produce heavy boats, if you're looking at anything 40 feet or longer, the difference between heavily built GRP and either steel or ferrocement gets increasingly small and irrelevant. You've already discounted wood, so I won't try to change your mind, although if somebody wants to do blue water in a wooden boat, there are plenty out there that will do the job fine (there's one called Suihaili for starters, although I don't think she's for sale).
If you're worried about hitting submerged objects at sea, then rather than worry about what to build the hull from, why not just get a boat that you like and is generally suitable, and install a forward-looking sonar? The last time I looked £1,500 would buy a top of the line (at least for civilian use) one, and they are available a fair bit cheaper than that.
mitiempo
Well-Known Member
There are many factors not mentioned by the original poster that have a bearing on material - size, budget, purchase used or build new, and whether a custom one off or a production boat.
There is nothing that will beat an aluminum or steel boat if you hit something. Properly insulated a metal boat is the warmest in a cold climate, coolest in a hot climate, and the quietest of any material. Steel has a weight penalty in smaller boats and aluminum doesn't.
One item that nobody has mentioned is leaks from fittings attached to the hull and particularly the deck. On a metal boat there is no reason for anything to ne through bolted. It is eather welded or attached using blind tapped doublers. Both steel and aluminum are the driest below if properly done - the bilge should be dusty. Aluminum doesn't need paint above the waterline and this can offset the higher material cost compared to steel. Properly wired and with machinery installed correctly there should not be any corrosion problems with either from electrolysis.
You discount wood. Traditional wood I would pass on as well, but modern cold molded construction using epoxy will give you a hull that is as strong or stronger than fiberglass with no threat of blisters and as low maintenance as fiberglass as well. It is also lighter than conventional fiberglass although exotic materials can produce lighter fiberglass boats.
There is nothing that will beat an aluminum or steel boat if you hit something. Properly insulated a metal boat is the warmest in a cold climate, coolest in a hot climate, and the quietest of any material. Steel has a weight penalty in smaller boats and aluminum doesn't.
One item that nobody has mentioned is leaks from fittings attached to the hull and particularly the deck. On a metal boat there is no reason for anything to ne through bolted. It is eather welded or attached using blind tapped doublers. Both steel and aluminum are the driest below if properly done - the bilge should be dusty. Aluminum doesn't need paint above the waterline and this can offset the higher material cost compared to steel. Properly wired and with machinery installed correctly there should not be any corrosion problems with either from electrolysis.
You discount wood. Traditional wood I would pass on as well, but modern cold molded construction using epoxy will give you a hull that is as strong or stronger than fiberglass with no threat of blisters and as low maintenance as fiberglass as well. It is also lighter than conventional fiberglass although exotic materials can produce lighter fiberglass boats.
