Hull Failure!

true, so they better start checking them all up before it is too late
I am sure that was like a statement to say we know what is happening and all is in control

there is 2 big names here Bertram and parent company Ferretti Group, both renowned for high quality and expensive boats with one reflecting the other really
this is bad for both IMO but more damaging to Ferretti Group as a company, as the builder is managed by them and its easy to fault them for this then Bertram
which builded trouble free rock solid boats for a 30 years + minimum
 
That looks like a fair old thump which has fractured the outer hull and squashed the core underneath a fair bit.
Give me a nice bit of osmosis in a solid 2" thick glassfibre hull anyday.
 
That's not really correct Bajan. It's perfectly possible to release a tunblehome hull made in one piece. You simply put a joint in the mould and remove it half at a time. Many many boats are built that way. Likewise, with the many sailboats with sloping transoms the transom section of the mould is unbolted to release the hull
 
Indeed, there does appear ot have been an impact.

My major concern is the voids in the core you can see in the last pic, especially in the area of the chine where loads are high.
 
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so they better start checking them all up before it is too late

[/ QUOTE ]before it's too late!?! You must be joking, PY.
 
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Many sailing yachts with tumblehome (where the beam at deck level is less than the maximum hull beam) had to (of necessity) be built this way, as otherwise they would not be able to pull the hull from the mould.

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I have a tumblehome hull and believe that it (as many others) are built using a split mould, i.e. the hull is made in one and then the mould halves then unbolted along its centerline thus releasing the hull.

Ants
 
It's all guesswork of course but I suspect that mark is a red herring. The mark could be from craning, dirty fender, etc. And anyway even a massive thump is no reason for delamination 1 metre away. If you hit a rock and holed/sank a boat you wouldn't expect delamination 10cm away from the hole, let alone 1 metre away.

So I don't reckon Ferretti can hide behind an excuse of "the owner pranged it"!
 
I do find this thread (and many others) diagnosing failures via keyboard and screen a little amusing.

Its like the bloke in the pub that can fix a slow internet connection, clean up a virus and fix the missfire in a car without leaving the bar.

I have seen a similar faliure mode where it appeared at first glance to be a lack of adhesion between layers in a moulding. It remains the case that complex mouldings with or without foam or balsa cores require careful design and manufacturing processes.
 
I see what you mean, and tend to agree with you.
Otoh, I'm pretty sure that in Ferretti these pics and comments spreading around the web are not considered amusing at all.
How interested in the moulding complexity do you think any prospect US customer would be, when shown these pics by some Bertram competitor, while laughing about the mess those Italians have been able to make out of a previously reputable US builder?
Really sad, particularly these days.
 
It grates with me a little, the lineage back to Ray Hunt is with both Bertram and my own boat.

It could be the best deisgn ever, but badly built its still not going to be any good.
 
for me for Bertram and Ferretti Group to tackle this problem there is only one way
built back all solid GRP (no sandwich and core) and then the people will start looking at a Bertram the old way around
hell I am sure this is not the first delamination to occur, but if I was them I would put a press release and start building all in the old fashion way from the small 360 to the big 700
then Bertram can go out of this in a much better position then ever before, as they will be among the few who build this way...
this is my 2 cents to restore this name back to its glory
 
Yeah but the delam was not just between the polyester and the core. It was between the polyester and the polyester. If the same QC had been applied to a non-cored hull the same failure could have occured. So I still would hesitate now to buy from this company, even if they didn't use Divinycell/Airex...

This failure didn't occur because core was used. It was becuase they didn't glue the laminate together propery, either to itself or to the core. It's unfair to do things that suggest cores, per se, are the cause of this problem
 
All well and good jfm, but I'm afraid that even without such technical knowledge, most punters will jump in the same conclusions.
Unless I'm completely mistaken about the average US mentality, those pics coupled with the "new" Bertram ownership are more than enough to rule them out, period.
In their (and RBS, btw) boots, I'd be extremely worried also for similar effects spreading also to other brands of the group.
Not to mention - dare I say it? - class actions, if just another couple of boats would show similar problems...
 
I wonder how much detail is kept of the construction of the hull, materials, catalysts, batch numbers, temperatures, humidty, times, operators etc.

I agree its does not appear to be a problem with the core per se, however in one picture the core does look very poorly arranged.
 
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This failure didn't occur because core was used. It was becuase they didn't glue the laminate together propery, either to itself or to the core. It's unfair to do things that suggest cores, per se, are the cause of this problem

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I've never seen a picture of a hand layup or spray layup fibreglass hull that has come apart like this one did.

If a composite hull needs to be put togather "properly" using just the right glues / techniques / conditions, then it is always going to be more prone to being built incorrectly, unless you employ a team of applied chemistry graduates on the production line.

A solid fibreglass hull is better in the sense that it's harder to hash up the build, and most of the issues are well-known.

dv.
 
Blimey, jfm, we've got a bit of a downer on Ferretti at the mo /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I know Bertram is part of the Ferretti group but this problem will impact only Bertram, not other Ferretti group builders. It's a bit like blaming VW when your Bentley breaks down. Having said this, I agree with you. No type of impact should cause this kind of delamination and there's obviously been a serious failure in Bertram's production process. Even though Bertram has a good reputation as a high end builder, this will badly affect their sales IMHO. It is high profile incidents like this that kill companies
 
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