How to remove Blakes seacock bolts

M

martynlinda

Member
Joined
15 Apr 2006
Messages
25
Visit site
I have a Westerly Storm and am in the process of removing the Blakes sea cocks but Westerly seem to have glassed in underneath the flange and around the bolt holes. I have cleared the heads and removed the four nuts but it is absolutely solid. My first idea was to knock the bolts out. I put a nut on and hit with hammer. it only boinced back - no movement. I am worried that if I really belt the bolts from inside then I will damage the hull. If only the bolts hadn't been glassed in. I need to replace them as old and the new exterior plate is slightly larger to allow new exit tube tube to fit. Any ideas
 
Have to ask - why replace Blakes seacocks? I am guessing that your boat is roughly the same age as mine 1984/5? My Blakes are in excellent condition, the plugs and cones have been reground once and none of them leak. At the age they are they are probably the first of the DZR ones, superseding bronze a year or so earlier. There is a little surface corrosion but nothing at all to worry about and no chance of dezincification.
 
Why replace blakes

vyv_cox said:
Have to ask - why replace Blakes seacocks? I am guessing that your boat is roughly the same age as mine 1984/5? My Blakes are in excellent condition, the plugs and cones have been reground once and none of them leak. At the age they are they are probably the first of the DZR ones, superseding bronze a year or so earlier. There is a little surface corrosion but nothing at all to worry about and no chance of dezincification.
Click to expand...

1. They are very inaccessible for greasing, new ones have nipples
2. The bolts holding tops down have stripped the threads in the body so using ordinary nuts and bolts
3. The cones must have been ground frequently as almost flush with body.
4. There was surprisingly corrosion on the outlet cone.
 
martynlinda said:
1. They are very inaccessible for greasing, new ones have nipples
2. The bolts holding tops down have stripped the threads in the body so using ordinary nuts and bolts
3. The cones must have been ground frequently as almost flush with body.
4. There was surprisingly corrosion on the outlet cone.
Click to expand...
what chemicals have been used to "clean" the toilet
 
martynlinda said:
I have a Westerly Storm and am in the process of removing the Blakes sea cocks but Westerly seem to have glassed in underneath the flange and around the bolt holes. I have cleared the heads and removed the four nuts but it is absolutely solid. My first idea was to knock the bolts out. I put a nut on and hit with hammer. it only boinced back - no movement. I am worried that if I really belt the bolts from inside then I will damage the hull. If only the bolts hadn't been glassed in. I need to replace them as old and the new exterior plate is slightly larger to allow new exit tube tube to fit. Any ideas
Click to expand...

I totally agree with Vyv and regrind them with medium then fine grinding paste, believe me they will clean up, my own have been in since my boat was built in 1989 but are still serviceable.

I can tell you from watching someone three years ago you will seriously damage your hull trying to knock your old ones out, new bolts are available but not cheap but will last for years.

Mine were also difficult to get at and it took me more than four hours first time when I did them in 2005 and they also 'do not have' grease nipples, now I do them every 2 years BUT I also use the Blakes green grease.

They should NOT be a tight fit, I can turn mine with one finger.



View attachment 48067View attachment 48066View attachment 48065View attachment 48064
 
sailorman said:
what chemicals have been used to "clean" the toilet
Click to expand...

If you know of anything that will attack brass or bronze and is available to a 'normal' citizen I would be glad to hear of it. A few years ago when the seacock campaign was at its height I spent some considerable time trying to find a chemical that would even stain brass. Despite trying every household product available, plus hydrochloric acid, caustic soda, ammonia, I failed to find a single one.
 
There is a picture of a pitted cone on P6 of January YM. Is yours like that? Some of mine are. I intend to keep re-grinding them till they fall apart, if they ever do. In terms of the seacock itself, it will fail safe.
You can see from the snap that there is still 1/8th in + of meat above the cone, this is well in excess of plenty. Do check that yours really are nearly flush because you will probably end up drilling out the existing bolts, if you decide you must fit new.

Drill the bolts out from the outside after filing flats on the round heads and centre punching. Drill small, to a depth of abut 3/4in at first and then open out, give the thing a rap with an hammer as you go along and eventually the bolt will cave in. The bronze nuts and bolts are an outrageous price. Many, probably most, builders in the 70 and 80s fitted stainless, it has not proved to be a problem to my knowledge. The outer plate was also dispensed with by many manufacturers, the bolts being directly countersunk into the hull - esp where the boat had a solid layup and racing pretentions.

You could probably fit a replacement cone if you could get hold of one. I have mixed them in the past and not met any problem. Good luck. As already suggested it is all a bit of a palaver.
 
Last edited:
As doug748 says, the bolts on all three Blakes seacocks on my Sadler are stainless steel, countersunk into the hull. They have been there since 1985 with no evidence of corrosion. The last time I priced the recommended phosphor bronze bolts they were £50 for four!

I have never disturbed them but the four very similar bolts that held the P-bracket came out very easily once everything was disconnected from them. Once you can get the seacocks out, probably using a combination of levering from inside and hammering from outside, I suspect that the bolts will not be a problem.
 
I agree with vyv_cox that you should keep the Blakes; and if necessary drill out the bolts as suggested by doug748. It's never easy to decide when to deviate from 'if it aint broke don't fix it' - but when I chose to replace Lynn Rival's seacock bolts at 30 years (triggered by Blake's recommendation of 10 years) 75% of the old bolts failed in torsion under quite light load as I removed the nuts. Silicon bronze bolts can be found at much more reasonable prices from landlubber fastener suppliers - I got mine from Anglian at about 1/3 of the cost, but that was 5 or 6 years ago. Personally I would prefer not to use stainless below water, but if vyv says it's OK then it should be fine.
Good luck,
Paul Chandler
 
K
lynnrival said:
Personally I would prefer not to use stainless below water, but if vyv says it's OK then it should be fine.
Click to expand...

Under many circumstances I would agree but the countersunk bolts as used by Sadler are almost totally isolated from the water. The really big risk is where threads are exposed to water and crevice corrosion gets hold. But where there are no crevices 316 survives very well, witness the millions of prop shafts made in it.
 
Seacocks

Mine were over 40 years old and had started to dezinc. After the the bolts are removed then carefully apply heat via a blow torch - should be no problem removing them after that.
 
This amount of corrosion surprised me....

Blakes_zps7ab1df52.jpg


Even looking like that if it's well greased it doesn't leak a drop.
 
vyv_cox said:
I managed to make contact with someone quite a few years ago but the info was vague, hence my uncertainty over the changeover date. Might be worth trying again but to most employees 1984 is as far back in time as 1066.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Vyv.
At least in 1066 there was no such thing as Tonval ;)

P.S. On a whim I just googled 'tonval' (yet again), but this time discovered that it's also the name of a proprietary medicine used in the treatment of, amongst other things, Dumping syndrome*. It's obviously contra-indicated for depressive illnesses, since it does nothing to rid you of that awful sinking feeling.

OK, I made that last bit up.

* Yes, it's somewhat to do with what you probably feared.
 
Last edited:
vyv_cox said:
AFAIK that is right on the cusp of the changeover from bronze to DZR. Do you,still have it? I would like to find out its composition.
Click to expand...

Of course I still have it, it's attached to the toilet outlet. :)

I gave it a clean up, slapped a load of Blakes grease on it and it's right as rain. I came to the conclusion that: I probably couldn't reduce the diameter enough with lapping compound, finding a spare would be a pain in the bum and removing and replacing the seacock would be too much bother. It's doing what it should be doing. So why make life harder for myself?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top