How to remove an old fridge safely?

[Koeketiene]

Numpty question:
A possible winter project is to replace our bulky, old and power hungry fridge with something more compact and energy efficient.
My youngest is willing to give the job a go, however he is a bit worried about the 'gas' in the old unit. Hence my question: how to remove the old unit safely and will any toxic gas escape?

Any help/suggestions appreciated.

Picture of our current set-up below:

 

[pvb]

It's most likely to contain R22 refrigerant, which theoretically is subject to safe disposal regulations as it supposedly contributes to global warming. However, there'll be very little of it in your system, and it isn't toxic, so you might consider just removing the system under conditions of good ventilation. It's possible that the compressor and evaporator are joined by self-sealing valves, in which case there should theoretically be no leak of gas, and you can then take the bits to an approved disposal point.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Will,

When youngest cracks open connectors, tell him to do it carefully, just cracking the joints open a little to start with and any remaining gas will bleed off slowly... I did the same on PoH, and it wasn't anywhere near as scary as i'd expected.. a little hiss for 4 or 5 mins and it was all over... as pvb says, it may well have self sealing valves anyway.

 

[nigelmercier]

If it's R-22, then it is three times denser than air. If a lot escapes, give it a some time before you go back.
MSDS here: http://www.refrigerants.com/msds/r22.pdf

 

[Heckler]

Numpty question:
A possible winter project is to replace our bulky, old and power hungry fridge with something more compact and energy efficient.
My youngest is willing to give the job a go, however he is a bit worried about the 'gas' in the old unit. Hence my question: how to remove the old unit safely and will any toxic gas escape?

Any help/suggestions appreciated.

Picture of our current set-up below:

Thats the same compressor as in mine, It will have 134a in. .090 kgs as indicated on the compressor. It will have quick connects on it. Look like a threaded coupling. Just undo them, they are self sealing.
Then sell the compressor to me!
Stu
PS the only issue that we used to have with 12 or 22 was that it was heavier than air and large amounts in a confined space would displace air and you would die. I helped rescue a boat engineer out of a bulk cement tank after a freon thru pipe fractured. In itself it is pretty inocuous, mixed with a gas soldering torch it was a different matter! Fluouro carbons burned are not nice. It is not a flammeable gas as such.
PPS it will tell you on the compressor label what gas is in it

 

[Heckler]

If it's R-22, then it is three times denser than air. If a lot escapes, give it a some time before you go back.
MSDS here: http://www.refrigerants.com/msds/r22.pdf

Fridges of the R22 era used R12, R22 was used in air conditioners. Something to do with the superheat and please its NOT necessary to go in to a technical discussion of the use of 12 and 22!
S

 

[superheat6k]

If it is pre 1994 it is likely to be R12, post 1995 R134a. Unlikely to be R22, as this has differing characteristics not much used in small fridges. Your unit doesn't show the gas grade, but the AH12 suggests R12.

The Law (Environmental Protection Act 1990) requires the gas be removed properly prior to its disposal as mixed metal waste. But most small fridges barely prime the recovery unit that is used before the puff of gas contained has gone. Strictly speaking to degas the small qty you are dealing with requires a qualified engineer with at least level 3 F Gas qualification (City & Guild 2079). You will then likely get a disposal charge, which could be hefty, in which case ensure you get a traceable waste transfer note - you would have paid for this, and without it far too easy for the person removing it just to let it go later, once out of your sight - they can then pocket the disposal fee you have paid for in good faith.

Not toxic, not flammable, unless an HC (Butane) but these were mostly post 2000. Breathing a lungful won't hurt but continuous exposure should be avoided. Probably heavier than air so plenty of ventilation if the gas 'leaks' whilst moving it.

If it does leak don't beat yourself up - the average supermarket probably looses 10 times this qty each week, but you should make appropriate efforts to get it taken away properly. Your local yellow pages will have details of firms that can do this.

 

[Caer Urfa]

Reading some replies was almost amusing to say the least, I removed a very similar fridge earlier this year, IF any gas comes out it will hiss max a couple of minutes my own about a minute.

I then took the fridge down to the local council tip and was told to just put it with the other old fridges.

Job done, no costs, no experts, no one died from poisoning !

Mike

 

[Heckler]

Reading some replies was almost amusing to say the least, I removed a very similar fridge earlier this year, IF any gas comes out it will hiss max a couple of minutes my own about a minute.

I then took the fridge down to the local council tip and was told to just put it with the other old fridges.

Job done, no costs, no experts, no one died from poisoning !

Mike

Spot on!
S

 

[Storyline]

Now that these ozone destroying gasses are no longer produced on an industrial scale I cannot see a problem venting yours into the environment. There are probably specialists that can remove it without allowing any gas to escape but the carbon footprint of them attending would outweigh any benefit imo

Edit: there was a brief period after CFCs were identified as being a no-no when butane was used, as someone above pointed out, so just in case it would be prudent to ensure there were no sources of ignition around when you vented it.

 

[superheat6k]

Now that these ozone destroying gasses are no longer produced on an industrial scale I cannot see a problem venting yours into the environment.

Ermm, perhaps because to do so deliberately is ILLEGAL. You don't empty your waste oil into the harbour. Why should waste refrigerant gas be regarded differently. No one ever said complying with environmental legislation would be cheap.

 

[GrahamHR]

R12; one of the ozone layer depleting CFC gases. I believe the ozone layer has largely recovered, so let small quantities free at will ! The intermediate HCFCs such 141b that were developed before HFCs, were a waste of effort really; the PU foam industry would have been better off using halons ( like CFCs, but with bromine instead of chlorine) as blowing agents/ insulating gases to reach their 50% reduction ODP targets; 50% less required with double the insulation. As to 134A it's still used in car aircon systems blowing agent in PU foams; it all diffuses out of the foams.

 

[Heckler]

Thats the same compressor as in mine, It will have 134a in. .090 kgs as indicated on the compressor. It will have quick connects on it. Look like a threaded coupling. Just undo them, they are self sealing.
Then sell the compressor to me!
Stu
PS the only issue that we used to have with 12 or 22 was that it was heavier than air and large amounts in a confined space would displace air and you would die. I helped rescue a boat engineer out of a bulk cement tank after a freon thru pipe fractured. In itself it is pretty inocuous, mixed with a gas soldering torch it was a different matter! Fluouro carbons burned are not nice. It is not a flammeable gas as such.
PPS it will tell you on the compressor label what gas is in it

This is mine, note the label, it says 134a just to the left of the weight of the charge which isnt visible in the oPs pic
The compressor,on mine is identical, I assume AV12 is the model number

View attachment 45466

 

[superheat6k]

I feel myself becoming incensed here !

So let the gas escape, dump your oil in the river and fly tip your general rubbish in the lane out of the marina. I would suggest reasonable minded forumites wouldn't do either of the latter two, so I utterly fail to understand why it is seemingly OK to encourage the former, just because you can't see the immediate affects.

 

[Heckler]

I feel myself becoming incensed here !

So let the gas escape, dump your oil in the river and fly tip your general rubbish in the lane out of the marina. I would suggest reasonable minded forumites wouldn't do either of the latter two, so I utterly fail to understand why it is seemingly OK to encourage the former, just because you can't see the immediate affects.

And of course pay someone like you to dispose of the gas? Me cynical? Nah!
I have pointed out before that the third world shade tree mechanics dont give a feck and dump it to atmosphere! A few years ago 134a was the new wunderkind and would save the planet, they are now trying to make us use a hydrocarbon!
S
PS just looked at your profile! Big engine? How much dirty gas are you dumping in to the atmosphere?

Wooh, two big engines? Old engines? so not as fuel efficient as the latest ones?

 

[superheat6k]

1 My business does not undertake domestic level refrigerant recycling. So of no commercial interest for me whatsoever.
2 My engines operate quite legally.

Like environmental legislation or not your position is flawed on venting refrigerants. Slinging stones won't change that.

 

[Heckler]

1 My business does not undertake domestic level refrigerant recycling. So of no commercial interest for me whatsoever.
2 My engines operate quite legally.

Like environmental legislation or not your position is flawed on venting refrigerants. Slinging stones won't change that.

Oops! not slinging stones, just taking the mick a bit!
peace.
S

 

[Heckler]

R12; one of the ozone layer depleting CFC gases. I believe the ozone layer has largely recovered, so let small quantities free at will ! The intermediate HCFCs such 141b that were developed before HFCs, were a waste of effort really; the PU foam industry would have been better off using halons ( like CFCs, but with bromine instead of chlorine) as blowing agents/ insulating gases to reach their 50% reduction ODP targets; 50% less required with double the insulation. As to 134A it's still used in car aircon systems blowing agent in PU foams; it all diffuses out of the foams.

It has always amused me that a tasteless, odourless, inert gas, heavier than air by (times two did someone say?) can allegedly "float" upwards to the ozone layer to "destroy" it!
S

 

[superheat6k]

It has always amused me that a tasteless, odourless, inert gas, heavier than air by (times two did someone say?) can allegedly "float" upwards to the ozone layer to "destroy" it!
S

Look I absolutely agree with you on that point. I am also of a view that the observations of the Ozone hole were not of sufficient length nor basis to make the case for the problem being caused by chlorinated gases. However, the Politicians off this world can claim a 'success' at something environmental - it's the only thing they can.

Perhaps becoming a discussion for the lounge. Peace indeed !

 

[GrahamM376]

When I changed our fridge a few years ago, the old one not having sealing quick connectors I contacted a local refrigeration engineer, he said quite simply "do you really want to pay me 50 euro just to cut a pipe which you can do yourself?" My reply was obvious and there was surprisingly little gas but, being on the hard I removed the log to allow heavy gas to drain from the bilge.