How to remove 35 year old port-lights?

Robert Wilson said:
Thanks Chris. The tape seems to be a perfect answer. Hadlows sound a helpful contact.

Also, as mentioned somewhere above, I'm going to try a hot air gun to ease removal.

I hope your waters haven't frozen in -3°C !

Robert
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Be very careful using a heat source on windows, whether glass or perspex. Easy to crack glass with localised heat and perspex changes shape at surprisingly low temperatures, which might not break it but the view out will be fuzzy!

Good photos of snow in Crete on many internet sites - probably not a single snow plough on the island which won't help traffic flow.
 
Thank you Vyv. A well appreciated warning.

The screws fixing the outer bezel/frame will not shift. I suspect I'll have to drill them out - also with great care. It would be far, far easier to find the leak and "Sikaflex" it, but I haven't managed to find it/them yet.
I don't fancy the neck-end of £900 for six replacement port-lights.
 
In the long run, its rarely satisfactory to splodge some Sika over a leak. It must looks messy and doesn't solve the problem. Removal and re sealing will cure the leak for many years but is quite a chore. Applying sustained outward pressure with scrapers, chisel, screwdrivers (often over a number of days) will cause the mastic to yield. Be careful not to bend or damage the frame.
 
ghostlymoron said:
In the long run, its rarely satisfactory to splodge some Sika over a leak. It must looks messy and doesn't solve the problem. Removal and re sealing will cure the leak for many years but is quite a chore. Applying sustained outward pressure with scrapers, chisel, screwdrivers (often over a number of days) will cause the mastic to yield. Be careful not to bend or damage the frame.
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That's my biggest worry.

Thanks
 
In another forum, I asked if anyone could provide a section of a window frame for a Sadler 32 so I know just exactly what I'm up against, but without success. I don't know if these frames are generic or specific to Sadlers.
Could anyone here post one for me?
 
afterpegassus said:
In another forum, I asked if anyone could provide a section of a window frame for a Sadler 32 so I know just exactly what I'm up against, but without success. I don't know if these frames are generic or specific to Sadlers.
Could anyone here post one for me?
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It might be easiest if you posted a picture of the inside and outside of one of your windows and we then told you what the frame is. I suspect there may be some changes over the production run. If, however, they are original aluminium frames which split in half to instert the glass and there is a rubber hocky stick / L shaped strip on the inside of the boat then it is very likely that they are just an L shaped section secured to the coachroof by screws. Snooks may be along shortly to add more detail
 
J-P at Hadlow changed his advice a few years back and says stick the Scapa Tape to the hull rather than the window... I had exactly the same problem with an aft cabin window, and since I replaced the tape that way round it's been fine
 
afterpegassus said:
In another forum, I asked if anyone could provide a section of a window frame for a Sadler 32 so I know just exactly what I'm up against, but without success. I don't know if these frames are generic or specific to Sadlers.
Could anyone here post one for me?
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Pretty much as RivalRedwing has said, the extrusion is an 'h' shape, the long arm being the external flange and the 'u' part, actually square, not rounded, holding the glass. The frame is in two parts with split lines about half way between the ends. The halves are connected together with fish-plates attached by very small set screws.

One small word of caution. I followed the procedure below several times but never achieved a permanent seal. Eventually I had the windows repaired professionally in Greece. The company found that the glass used by Sadlers had always been too small, making it impossible to achieve a good overlap of glass to frame. All the glasses were replaced, using a more modern version with better heat reflecting properties, ending all my problems.

Here is a short article I wrote years ago.
Sadler 34 windows
1. Removal.
Unscrew all countersunk screws around the external flange. Although it is very bad practice to insert a tool between the flange and the coachroof sides, this is the only way to remove the window. Use a wood chisel or some other sharp, thin tool and carefully insert it, doing as little damage as possible to either the flange or boat. Pushing the window frame from the inside will help, particularly after the initial adhesion has been broken. Hitting the inside of the frame with a mallet, using a wooden stick as a buffer, seems to be ineffective due to the resilience of the rubber sealant. Eventually the frame will come free.
2. Separating the glass from the frame
The frame is in two halves, joined at top and bottom with a very small plate held by two extremely small (3 mm) countersunk screws. Remove one screw from each plate. Begin to separate the two halves by inserting a chisel or screwdriver into the join and twisting it. If the old sealant has deteriorated very badly this will not be too difficult, but it is a different matter if the sealant is still good. Keep pulling the two halves apart until eventually they slide off the glass. Fortunately, the glass seems to be very tough and I have not broken one yet!
3. Cleaning
This is quite a difficult job but must be done properly to ensure that the new sealant adheres correctly. Initially, scrape off the old sealant with any knives, chisels, scrapers that seem appropriate. Once all the surface is fairly clean, begin to use abrasive methods. Two products that are OK to use are nylon pan scourers and wire wool. Neither of these will mark the glass. If you use wet-and-dry paper the adhesion of the sealant will be inhibited and the glass may be scratched. The two solvents to use are acetone or methyl ethyl ketone, which both de-grease, and alcohol to dry the surface. Once at this stage it is best to work in medical gloves, partly because the ketones will sting any cuts on your hands, but mainly to save re-depositing grease on the glass and frame. Surfaces of both must be absolutely clean and well washed with the solvents.
4. Re-assembly
Re-assemble the frame around the glass, making sure it all goes back the same way. Insert the screws and tighten. Lay the frame down with the inside down and position the glass so that it is central within the frame. The time has now come to inject the sealant. I have used both marine silicone and polyurethane for the job and have seen no difference between them. Cut the end of the injector tube to leave a fairly small hole. Check that the sealant is thin enough to inject, these products thicken up as they age. If they are very viscous, take them back to the shop and replace with later stuff. Now begin to inject into the frame, keeping the injector tube facing in the way it is moving and keeping a bead of sealant ahead of it. This minimises the possibility of air pockets. Use plenty of sealant so that it completely fills the gap. Now leave it alone for 15 - 20 minutes. By this time it will have begun to skin over and thicken. Hold the frame and glass together so they do not move independently and turn the whole assembly over so the injected sealant is facing down. Press the glass down evenly so that the sealant extrudes outwards all around, but not so hard that the glass touches the frame. Now repeat the injection process, filling the gap at the inside of the frame. Inject in the same way, minimising air pockets. Now leave the whole thing for a couple of hours, or until it has hardened enough to handle.
 
afterpegassus said:
Ok- thanks for that. The fog is beginning to clear.
I guess the coachroof and inner moulding are brought together as one round the window penetration?
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My description is for a 34. The windows are exactly the same on both (and many others) and your description of the construction is how my 34 is built but I cannot say exactly for the 32.
 
That video certainly shows why you should use non-adhesive sealant NOT adhesive on windows the are held in place by screws. The foam strip stuff recommended earlier would be even better than my butyl tape.
 
ghostlymoron said:
That video certainly shows why you should use non-adhesive sealant NOT adhesive on windows the are held in place by screws. The foam strip stuff recommended earlier would be even better than my butyl tape.
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When I had my windows professionally rebuilt a couple of years ago the company provided primer, two tubes of adhesive/sealant and instructions for refitting them. I had previously removed most of the windows a couple of times and had considered using butyl tape but decided against on the basis that I did not think the overall sealing would be as good.
 
When Gladys was T-boned in 2006 and repaired at a certain East Coast Yard adjacent to Ipswich, windows had to be replaced (the impact had sheared the back off one) and they used Sikaflex (windows are frameless, inter-screw fixed on the outside of the cabin side). They leaked and cracked badly so I replaced them in again in about 2012, and when Hadlow came to remove them to remake, the old ones just fell off when the screws were out... Too hit and miss for me. The Scapa tape is awesome.
 
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