How to register an abandoned boat?

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Radek_PL

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Hi,
I came across a nice 7m boat held for many years on a piece of land in Spain.
The owner has abandoned it 20 years ago, marina has lost records and papers and eventually given the boat away to a local guy who's never fixed her up and kept for 5 years out and dry.
Could buy it at a very good price and fix it up properly.
The issue here is that i have no papers at all for her and no contact with the owner or family.
There is the ssr number available though, boat name and number on the sail.

Anybody an idea how to bite this and bring her back to life, register, etc...?

Thanks
Radek
 
If the boat were in the UK there would be no need to register it at all as there is no compulsory registration here. The SSR is meaningless as far as ownership is concerned. The main document of title is a Bill of Sale, but many boats do not even have this.

No reason why you cannot buy it from the existing owner and get a Bill of Sale from him - at least you could do this in England. However there is no way you can establish any other history, nor I would suspect get enough information to satisfy the Spanish authorities for registration.
 
Radek_PL said:
Hi,
I came across a nice 7m boat held for many years on a piece of land in Spain.
The owner has abandoned it 20 years ago, marina has lost records and papers and eventually given the boat away to a local guy who's never fixed her up and kept for 5 years out and dry.
Could buy it at a very good price and fix it up properly.
The issue here is that i have no papers at all for her and no contact with the owner or family.
There is the ssr number available though, boat name and number on the sail.

Anybody an idea how to bite this and bring her back to life, register, etc...?

Thanks
Radek
Click to expand...
Get an address in the UK. Friend or relative. Download an RYA standard form bill of sale. Use that and the UK address for you. This is the start. Then register it on the SSR using your UK address. The one on the boat is irrelevant, they expire after five years. Thats it. Officially yours.
 
skipper_stu said:
Get an address in the UK. Friend or relative. Download an RYA standard form bill of sale. Use that and the UK address for you. This is the start. Then register it on the SSR using your UK address. The one on the boat is irrelevant, they expire after five years. Thats it. Officially yours.
Click to expand...

If you are going to make suggestions, just make sure they are correct and legal.The SSR does not imply any legal ownership.
 
Not abandoned as you are buying from someone who states themselves the owner. Lots of pics of location/seller and a very full bill of sale (see below)
I can see you want all to be kosher though. I bought a car to restore, the new house owner had found it in the lock-up and advertised it in the local press. I bought it without papers for spares/repairs and received a written receipt stating 'my sole property' by the seller.
When I applied for a logbook I got a call in person from Plod as the owner from 14 years in storage had been contacted by DVLA and disputed the sellers rights, despite not paying rent for those years.
Resolved amicably and no overseas element fortunately. Nice old Series 2 Daimler Sovereign, £35.00...
 
You are right to be wary that this boat might have been stolen. Does the seller have proof of accepting it from a bona-fide marina after proper notice being given to the last owner?

You might be able to trace the old SSR number back to the last owner, and with luck get a complete history - at least assurance that it hasn't been recorded as stolen. Try contacting the registry of shipping and seamen at Cardiff. Even the sail number might be helpful. The RYA legal dept. are a good source of advice about buying boats in circumstances like these.
 
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jwilson said:
It's in Spain - very different to UK, so SSR stuff irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Well, after 5 years the SSR registration will have lapsed anyway but as has been posted it, along with the sail number, may still help trace the original owner which would be helpful in establishing any possible bones of contention there.

Boo2
 
People place loads of faith in the Bill of Sale but as I understand it, it only has any particular legal standing if used in getting or transferring a Part 1 registration. You have to submit a correctly executed Bill of Sale and the registration people keep it.
In conjunction with SSR, it has no more status than a simple receipt given by the seller of a chattel. You do not need to submit a Bill of Sale to get SSR registration.
Any legal eagle on here to confirm this or correct me please?
 
Plevier said:
People place loads of faith in the Bill of Sale but as I understand it, it only has any particular legal standing if used in getting or transferring a Part 1 registration. You have to submit a correctly executed Bill of Sale and the registration people keep it.
In conjunction with SSR, it has no more status than a simple receipt given by the seller of a chattel. You do not need to submit a Bill of Sale to get SSR registration.
Any legal eagle on here to confirm this or correct me please?
Click to expand...
The bill of Sale is a transfer if title and is a legal document. It is very different from a receipt as it confirms that the seller has title and is passing it free from any charges. A receipt is just that -acknowledgement of monies received. When a boat is new the original buyer is provided with a builders certificate and a Bill of Sale which is the title document as well as a commercial invoice. When he sells, the new Bill of Sale transfers the title. Ideally all these documents should stay with the boat as they provide an unbroken record of title. So, it is correct to place faith in the Bill of Sale and not in the invoice, except that the latter is evidence of VAT payment.

Part 1 is no more than a register of that title, which is why the registrar needs evidence of title, but it is still the Bill of Sale that is the actual title. There is no need for it to register on the SSR as this is not a register of title and is of no use in establishing either title or ownership.

You will find a fuller explanation of these issues on the RYA site, but note that both the site and the short explanation above are only relevant to the UK.
 
In English law, title can only pass if the seller has title to pass, bill of sale or no bill of sale. Anyone can say they have title. Only the legitimate owner has title, so in English law you need to find the owner or his agent. If it's not part 1 registered then the boat is simply a chattel and title can pass under an oral contract, just like selling a sofa or a ham sandwich. It's useful to have evidence that the transaction has taken place - invoice, receipt, bill of sale, exchange of emails etc.

The above assumes that you aren't dealing with a vessel that's Part 1 registered, and you don't need to satisfy officialdom that it's VAT paid.

However, as the vessel is in Spain, English law might not be relevant (eg if the boat and its old and new owners are all in Spain) any more than English law would apply to the sale of a secondhand Rolls-Royce in Spain between a seller and a buyer in Spain. The fact that the Rolls Royce was built in England and has UK number plates isn't relevant.

Anyway, what makes you think think the guy who has had the boat for the last five years is not the owner and not entitled to sell it to you if he wishes?
 
Everyone is focusing on ownership, but I don't think that's what the OP is actually asking about. Whatever the legal theory, it seems highly unlikely to me that in practice anyone will ever contest his ownership of a boat that was abandoned 20 years ago and then passed through multiple keepers who each willingly handed it on.

What he's asking about is registration in his name in Spain, where presumably boats have to be registered in the same way as we register cars at the DVLA. He wants to know what the Spanish boat registry will require of him. Imagine someone in the UK acquired a car in complicated circumstances, where there's no real doubt that it's theirs but they have no V5. How would they best jump through the DVLA's hoops to regularise the situation? The OP needs to know the Spanish nautical equivalent, and that's not something that most of us will know. He needs to ask Spanish sailors really.

Pete
 
Pete

Having looked back at the original post, I think you're right.

I agree - ask a local expert. The registrtaion authority themselves if they are known to be helpful, or the 'Spanish RYA-equivalent legal department' if there is such a beast. But as in UK avoid bar-room experts . . .
 
My advice after farting about with boats and paperwork in Spain is gp to a proper marine Gestoria and get proper advice.... and remember its not always what it seems and quite honest seeming people can be dishonest....... one gestoría tried to pass off my 40 foot schooner as a twin engines motor boat I had hired them to reflag.........the customs man was very irate.... so was I.
 
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