How to prove VAT status of boat

[Rjmpage]

Hi
I would like to take my Gib Sea 105 to France next month but believe I now need to carry proof that VAT has been paid on the boat if going to the EU. The boat was built in 1985 and bought in 1987.
I have no proof of VAT paid. The broker we bought the boat from is no longer. I have no contact details of the previous owner.
If I take the boat over to France for a few days and we are inspected by customs, I believe the boat could be impounded and the VAT may be liable. Is this the case if we are simply visiting

 

[dunedin]

Are you a UK resident? If so, and only planning to visit France briefly, you should not need to prove VAT status as can do a temporary import for up to 18 months.
Others will be along with more details of any process needed - or to correct if I have this wrong.

 

[Tranona]

You are right. Your boat can enter France (and the EU) as a temporary visitor if you and the boat are UK resident. Although in theory there is a process for registering your boats entry it does not seem to be used for temporary short term visitors. The EU is not in the least bit interested in V AT on a UK boat as we are not in the EU. Anyway, even if we were your boat would be deemed VAT paid on account of its age.

So, forget about VAT, just make sure you have your registration document, insurance VHF certificate and comply with Schengen rules for all crew members.

 

[Irish Rover]

You are right. Your boat can enter France (and the EU) as a temporary visitor if you and the boat are UK resident. Although in theory there is a process for registering your boats entry it does not seem to be used for temporary short term visitors. The EU is not in the least bit interested in V AT on a UK boat as we are not in the EU. Anyway, even if we were your boat would be deemed VAT paid on account of its age.

So, forget about VAT, just make sure you have your registration document, insurance VHF certificate and comply with Schengen rules for all crew members.

I'm always ready to learn so I'd be interested to hear more about your report that UK boats are not being required to register their short-term entries to the EU. I would have thought it was an absolute requirement.

 

[RJJ]

I think you are fine per above. And in my experience they are unlikely to ask anyway.

Belt and braces, a letter from your marina or yard certifying her location on NYD last year should suffice.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I'm always ready to learn so I'd be interested to hear more about your report that UK boats are not being required to register their short-term entries to the EU. I would have thought it was an absolute requirement.

I think the key questions would be :

Where is he domiciled and resident

Very importantly where he pays his tax, if it is in an EU member state then questions might start being raised and it is possible that the boat could be liable for TVA or VAT or whatever it is called in the country it arrives in. The circumstances are unusual enough for it to start to raise questions in an imaginative customs officer. On the other hand he might just ignore it as being too much trouble and let it pass. Initially it is the flag that will raise the profile as it will be assumed that the crew are UK in origin and need to be recorded what comes after that will be interesting.
On the odd instances I have mused about returning to sailing I have wondered what would happen as a French / UK duel national if I flagged the vessel in the UK to avoid the hassle of registering in France and having to update my sailing qualifications and avoid paying an annual tax, I concluded it would be better to have an EU vessel tax paid but keep it out of France probably Holland and flag it under Pt 1 of the UK registration and then just deal with any customs inspection as and when safe in the knowledge that everything was covered. All academic now though.

 

[Tranona]

I'm always ready to learn so I'd be interested to hear more about your report that UK boats are not being required to register their short-term entries to the EU. I would have thought it was an absolute requirement.

I have no direct experience but I have seen nothing in either advice to those taking their boats abroad nor in reports from people visiting France of a requirement to register the boat on entry - only the different ways of getting a Schengen stamp in the passport. I know that Greece (where you go) requires registration and I have heard that Italy also does, but it would require huge infrastructure to to deal with casual short term visiting boats.

Maybe I have missed something, but I don't think so.

 

[Graham376]

No-one's bothered us about VAT status or registering boat's presence - so far. Apart from Covid movement restrictions, nothing has changed for us since leaving EU.

 

[Irish Rover]

No-one's bothered us about VAT status or registering boat's presence - so far. Apart from Covid movement restrictions, nothing has changed for us since leaving EU.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I understood your boat is in Portugal - the thread is about entering the EU by boat from the UK. Have you actually entered with your boat since the fateful day?
As I understand it there is a legal requirement to report to the authorities on arrival and apply for TA. I'd be amazed if boat owners are ignoring this requirement and running the risk of having their boats impounded. It would be useful to hear from those who've done it.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I understood your boat is in Portugal - the thread is about entering the EU by boat from the UK. Have you actually entered with your boat since the fateful day?
As I understand it there is a legal requirement to report to the authorities on arrival and apply for TA. I'd be amazed if boat owners are ignoring this requirement and running the risk of having their boats impounded. It would be useful to hear from those who've done it.

I think at least in western Europe there is no requirement for short term non EU flagged cruising boats to apply for a TA or register the presence of the boat, it is the individuals that require their presence "registering" Given the large number of international cruising boats that visit western Europe and have over the decades prior to 2021 when they were not required to unless planning an extended stay and I suspect nothing has changed in that respect for them or now the UK I think in this case a TA is a red herring.

 

[superheat6k]

I think you are fine per above. And in my experience they are unlikely to ask anyway.

Belt and braces, a letter from your marina or yard certifying her location on NYD last year should suffice.

As an aside to the subject of this thread, I have included as part of the required documents for the boat I am in the process of buying a written proof of her location on 31/12/2021, i.e. marina bill or statement.

 

[Irish Rover]

I think at least in western Europe there is no requirement for short term non EU flagged cruising boats to apply for a TA or register the presence of the boat, it is the individuals that require their presence "registering" Given the large number of international cruising boats that visit western Europe and have over the decades prior to 2021 when they were not required to unless planning an extended stay and I suspect nothing has changed in that respect for them or now the UK I think in this case a TA is a red herring.

I'm surprised but pleased for UK boaters. I wish the Greeks would get the same memo.

 

[LorenzoC]

Last summer I was on a Hanse from Corfù to Primosten as guest.
The owner had to show the documents of the boat in every marina and he did the "Entering" in Croatia at the Harbour Master's Office as for the "Exit" from Croatia when they leave for Italy

 

[Graham376]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I understood your boat is in Portugal - the thread is about entering the EU by boat from the UK. Have you actually entered with your boat since the fateful day?
As I understand it there is a legal requirement to report to the authorities on arrival and apply for TA. I'd be amazed if boat owners are ignoring this requirement and running the risk of having their boats impounded. It would be useful to hear from those who've done it.

Yes we're in Portugal, a UK boat with two EU residents on board and contrary to the doomsayers, UK boats don't seem to raise any interest. We haven't left or entered EU so far but the few UK residents I've spoken to arriving here by boat mostly via Spain from the UK say they have just arrived as they have done for years, without having to apply for TA or present themselves for passport stamping, just handed in the normal documents - passport, insurance and SSR - at marina offices, as we've always done. Maybe some are following the rules but yet to meet anyone who's been hauled before authorities.

 

[Tranona]

I'm always ready to learn so I'd be interested to hear more about your report that UK boats are not being required to register their short-term entries to the EU. I would have thought it was an absolute requirement.

Just to add a bit, this thread forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/cherbourg-in-formalities-experience.582255/page-2#post-7959887gives the current situation in Cherbourg which is probably no different from other northern French ports. Enforcement of the EU rules is at state level and for a ling time some states (Greece and Croatia in particular) have their own way of doing it reflecting their historic control mechanisms). I understand though that both France and Italy have more formal system on the med coast reflecting the number of third country boats kept semi permanently in marinas there.

 

[[70521]]

Hi
I would like to take my Gib Sea 105 to France next month but believe I now need to carry proof that VAT has been paid on the boat if going to the EU. The boat was built in 1985 and bought in 1987.
I have no proof of VAT paid. The broker we bought the boat from is no longer. I have no contact details of the previous owner.
If I take the boat over to France for a few days and we are inspected by customs, I believe the boat could be impounded and the VAT may be liable. Is this the case if we are simply visiting

Good to see another Gib'Sea owner.

I wrote to my MP about the same topic. He passed my question to the VAT people, who were unable to answer my question - they just quoted the regulations. The regulations are as clear as mud!

 

[Graham376]

I wrote to my MP about the same topic. He passed my question to the VAT people, who were unable to answer my question - they just quoted the regulations. The regulations are as clear as mud!

Unless UK border control are demanding documents, I think the only time VAT proof will needed is if/when an owner is claiming RGR after extended time out of the UK. From EU viewpoint, previous UK/EU VAT status is only relevant if a boat was present in EU on 31/12/20 and wants to remain there >18 months.

 

[[70521]]

Unless UK border control are demanding documents, I think the only time VAT proof will needed is if/when an owner is claiming RGR after extended time out of the UK. From EU viewpoint, previous UK/EU VAT status is only relevant if a boat was present in EU on 31/12/20 and wants to remain there >18 months.

I'd like to see that in writing from either the HMRC or Border Force. Until I do we are all subject to interpretation of some 'muddy' regulations.

 

[Graham376]

I'd like to see that in writing from either the HMRC or Border Force. Until I do we are all subject to interpretation of some 'muddy' regulations.

I think by now, we would have heard if folks have been required to provide VAT docs on return to UK following weekend or holiday cruise to EU.

I know of several boats which were headed back to UK last year to claim RGR but have so far seen no reports about the process. Did anyone here do it and what documentation was needed?

 

[Tranona]

Unless UK border control are demanding documents, I think the only time VAT proof will needed is if/when an owner is claiming RGR after extended time out of the UK. From EU viewpoint, previous UK/EU VAT status is only relevant if a boat was present in EU on 31/12/20 and wants to remain there >18 months.

The key criteria for claiming RGR is the boat and owner's eligibility, that is the same person who took the same boat out of the UK. Many boats would not be able to provide documentary proof of VAT payment, only that it was purchased privately in the last transaction. This issue has not been flagged up in the advice from the CA and RYA on RGR, nor any reports of it being a difficulty.