How to give a HSE Officer a heart attack this Christmas - Giroboat 1961

I think I like the pilot's attire best of all - dark sports jacket and light chinos (and probably brogues!) If one had to ditch one of these craft - at least be respectably dressed :p
 
When I used to get dumped in the Science Museum in the 50s, usually when my parents had Something to do in London, there was an German autogyro from WW11. Towed by a U-Boat to give them a much higher observation view. So, even in '61 it was not exactly original. Dunno if it is still there.
 
DownWest said:
When I used to get dumped in the Science Museum in the 50s, usually when my parents had Something to do in London, there was an German autogyro from WW11. Towed by a U-Boat to give them a much higher observation view. So, even in '61 it was not exactly original. Dunno if it is still there.
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I remember seeing an autogiro over Bedford before the War
 
Well that has caught on.

It is the kite surfers that scare the ***t out of me as they zigzag across the channel into the Exe at Exmouth.
 
Jamesuk said:
I can't say it 'Never took off" ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy7_B1KOpLw
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It's interesting, but I wonder what the point was supposed to be. How long does following a speedboat around at 30mph retain interest? By the way, I think they are wrong about the need for a pilot's licence on two counts: (1) you didn't need a pilot's licence for a glider in the UK in 1961 and (b) you can fly anything you like, powered or not, without a licence as long as you stay below 50' AGL.
 
That's wild. I love the way he swings out towards stationary objects like quay sides and trees on the corners. And those massive rotating blades would never chop your head off in a crash - at least your backside would be safe on that wooden school chair :)
 
JumbleDuck said:
(b) you can fly anything you like, powered or not, without a licence as long as you stay below 50' AGL.
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Ok, I'll bite!
After a career during which every aspect of Aviation Law (as in the ANO) was pretty familiar I have never come across that one. It sounds completely contrary to the spirit of any law, let alone aviation law (what would be the point in encouraging unlicenced/untrained flying in the most dangerous piece of airspace there is?). My guess is that this snippet is some sort of schoolboy fantasy of an unlikely sounding exemption from Big Rules.
I'd love to be corrected. Can you provide a link please?
 
We have had a few hovercraft in the past, and I still have the plans for a hoverwing, basically a hovercraft with some removeable wings that enable a primitive kind of ground effect ekranoplane style flying. Not being able to quite find out the law is the only thing that stopped us. If any of you chaps want the complete set of plans to build one, give ma a shout and I will post you them. But I expect a video of it in action some day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwC8MP6uOiQ
 
Normalfornorfolk said:
After a career during which every aspect of Aviation Law (as in the ANO) was pretty familiar I have never come across that one. It sounds completely contrary to the spirit of any law, let alone aviation law (what would be the point in encouraging unlicenced/untrained flying in the most dangerous piece of airspace there is?). My guess is that this snippet is some sort of schoolboy fantasy of an unlikely sounding exemption from Big Rules.
I'd love to be corrected. Can you provide a link please?
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Can't find it in the ANO myself, but I think it was in the "Laws and Rules" book produced by the British Gliding Association. I presume there is some definition somewhere which explains why you don't need a pilot's licence for a hovercraft, for example. I'm not sure if you need one for non-EASA gliders these days - I stopped flying just as EASIfication came in.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Can't find it in the ANO myself, but I think it was in the "Laws and Rules" book produced by the British Gliding Association. I presume there is some definition somewhere which explains why you don't need a pilot's licence for a hovercraft, for example. I'm not sure if you need one for non-EASA gliders these days - I stopped flying just as EASIfication came in.
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ISTR that when hovercraft first came into commercial use, the very first pilots DID have to have both a pilot's license and a Master Mariner's ticket! I think it was sorted out pretty quickly, but I definitely recall that the first commercial ones had problems entering service because of that.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
ISTR that when hovercraft first came into commercial use, the very first pilots DID have to have both a pilot's license and a Master Mariner's ticket! I think it was sorted out pretty quickly, but I definitely recall that the first commercial ones had problems entering service because of that.
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It could be that I am misremembering slightly and that the rules say that everything above 50' AGL needs a licence, rather than nothing below 50' AGL needs a licence.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
But that's the classic Ciceronian "The exception proves the rule"!
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Yup. I think the rules may be something like "Anything which ever flies above 50' AGL needs to be registered. Anyone who flies a registered aircraft must be licensed." It all depends on the definitions of "aircraft" and "fly", and neither of those definitions appears to be in the ANO.
 
I think we can safely say that as this sub 50' thing isn't in the ANO it doesn't actually exist. Neither does the ANO say anything about "Anything which ever flies above 50' AGL needs to be registered. "
It does specify registration of flying machines by weight in order to regulate some of the excesses of the model aircraft fraternity but says nothing about registration vs. height - at least, not that I've ever found.

"Laws and Rules" published by the BGA are a mixture of a smattering of hard Law from the ANO and BGA best practices which probably have no legal basis - club "rules" are not supported by an Act of Parliament and apart from the argument that the BGA had authority from the CAA to oversee gliding it would seem unlikely that they carry any/much legal heft. Now, with the interference of EASification the whole thing is regulated by law which surely makes the BGA's input rather academic?

As for WIGE (Ekranoplan) I think the ANO also has nothing to say about it. If it stays in ground effect it is presumably an air cushion vehicle but if it can fly out of that regime it must become an aircraft and be subject to all the aviation rules. No one knows how this would work in practice because no one has ever tried to operate one in the UK afaik but if you did you'd likely find the dead hand of the CAA taking great care to ensure you didn't until they'd formulated an entire new category of rules which in the present governmental environment would probably be at your cost = £Squillions. So it ain't gonna happen.
Quite where you'd get with a small homebuilt ekranoplan would depend on whether it came to the notice of the CAA. It would certainly be a minefield. If you stayed in ground effect you might get away with it but I think they'd probably just ask you nicely to desist. Arguing the case in court would bankrupt you which is the CAA's oft used fallback if you think you can outsmart them.

Shame, really. I quite fancy rocking down the Solent at 200Kts during Cowes Week in a Caspian Seamonster, Blackball pennant flying! That really would bring on some heart-attacks!
 
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