How much wind to get you going?

Sail Area Counts In Low Wind Speeds

On the Rival (at 10 tonnes displacement) with a goaster genoa I can get about 2kts (maximum), maybe 1.5 average, in 5 to 6 kts of wind, sailing a bit higher than a fine reach. If I luff up to close hauled I loose the speed so I do keep her free from close hauled. Note that with the standard roller reefing genoa she will still sail but at about 0.5 kts It's all about maximising sail area.
 
Rob_Webb said:
Sounds a bit slow. In light winds (sub 10kts) you should sail faster upwind than downwind as you generate more apparent.

Were you trying to sail too high? You need to come down a bit and slacken sails in v light.
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Yes I think I was, now that you mention it. I did keep luffing up to try to point beter because we had both wind on tide on the nose. Thinking about it I would have been better keeping moving even if that means scraficing pointing a bit.

Rob_Webb said:
And have you checked for dirty bottom?
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Should be OK went back in at Christmas with another 2 coats Tiger extra. last year all we had was a bit of slime so I am fairly confident that we are not too bad under there.
 
5 to 10 knots sees us ghosting along at 2 to 3 knots. At 10 knots we can make close to half the wind speed on most points of sail. From a little over 10 to 15 knots we get hull speed off the wind with the chute up and a bit over 5 knots on the wind. 15 to 20 knots gives us hull speed of 6 1/2 knots off the wind and about 6 knots hard on the wind, feathering any gusts much over 20 knots. Over 20 knots of sustained wind and we put the first reef in which spoils upwind performance by about half a knot and pointing by 5 degrees due to less control of sail shape.

If we over-reef in any kind of chop, the boat stops driving along nicely and I get grumpy, especially if I'm slightly hung over due to too many beers in Yarmouth the night before. :o
 
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PhillM said:
Out today in Solent. It seems to take 10kn + to get us moving. Anything less and speed fell to less than 2kn when close hauled.

Got overtaken by a wayfarer 2 up and a leisure 17 single handed.

We are 25loa 3.5 ton mab.

New Genoa but old main.

Does this sound right to you?
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Doesn't sound right - a Caravelle should sail fairly well in 8-10 knots wind, certainly 3-4 knots to windward even if old tired sails. Either the bottom is dirty, or your sail trim is badly wrong. Are you trying to point too high with sails pinned in too hard? In light airs you need to build up a bit of speed on a close reach with sails eased slightly then steadily head up and sheet in.
 
ProDave said:
Interesting thread and interesting observations.

So 8 knots is the minimum to get you moving, but at 12 knots you are thinking of putting a reef in.

That seems an awfully small comfort range?

I'm new to sailing, this is only our second season. Our little boat will get moving in just a few knots, and at 15 knots we are at the top of our comfort range and heading for shelter. I thought that made our boat a bit tender, perhaps not?
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Not me thinking of reefing, Mrs WD, or SWMBO. I tend to hang on to sail for far too long. I sailed once on Geita (a Van de Staat 30 foot GRP design) with a keen cruiser-racing skipper and his wife was with us on the trip back from Tobermory. We were making good time down the Firth of Lorne against a south-wester of about force 5, under reefed main and number 1 jib when his wife asked if he would have put up more sail to go faster if he were racing. The skipper replied that he would have more sail up but would be going slower and making more leeway.

I do find that reefing when the wind is consistently above 15 knots is not only more comfortable, but faster to windward. It is important to note that the 15 knots is a true wind speed, ie what it would read with the boat on a mooring. The actual reading will be considerably greater when beating due to the speed of the boat into the wind and also to the effect of the sails in accelerating the wind up over the sensor. Downwind I also reef but a bit later, as it makes the sail more cntrolable and comfortable. The Westerly Renown is a fairly small boat these days, but anything 31 feet long with a big sturdy hull and lots of accommodation seemed a bloody big one to me in the 60s when I was sailing in clapped-out six-metres with the occasional race in a proper boat, like Geita, Saint Mary (Ian Nicolson's 35 foot own design) of Mary of Dorset (Morgan-Giles 40 foot ketch.)
 
A bit more thinking ......

Last year I sailed using a couple of tell tales at about head height. Felt very happy with the pointing and overall performance.

As we did not have a VHF antenna (used a HH instead), I decided to fit one over the winter. With the help of "jerry the rigger" we fitted a VHF Hawk, the one with the wind indicator and guides.

Sunday I was trying to sail to the wind hawk. I had lost my the tell tales and stoped trying to feel the wind.

Thinking back I spent a lot of time pointing too high. Then to compensate I pulled in the sheets which actually made matters worse.

Got a bit fed up actually that "my boat" doesn't point like everyone elses. Started wondering about my own ability and that of the boat. Not quite deep dispair but def some disapointment.

From the start we have been trying to keep Paean faily low tech and as simple to sail / own as pos. Just goes to show what should have been an improvement was actually a step backwards.

Lesson learned. I will remember to trust my own judgement more than just dumbly watching to see what a bit of kit tells me I should be doing.

Also going to get some new tell tales as well!
 
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ai thin we may have preceded you leaving the Hamble and also found little wind to allow us to sail,so part motored and put a couple of spinners over for some mackerel or bass off Calshot for 30 minutes then sailed with a light freshening wind to Cowes.
Coming back we had a glorious sail, previously mentioned, from 2pm and back to the mooring by 4pm doing 5.5knots/dirty bottom and a broad reach as far as Calshot, then a struggle, down to 3 knots and motored the last 1.5 miles to Hamble.
Our sail had started with a NE F1-2 we returned with a SW-W F3.


ianat182
 
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