How much use is AIS

[Rivers & creeks]

Also another example of the advice to make large course changes, if you turn 50 degrees - even if it's to port - it makes it much clearer to the opposition what you're up to. That's a much simpler manoeuvre for a fishing boat or yacht. But agreed, always turn right.

 

[Tony Cross]

these 2 ships both had ais but the fishing vessel turned to port into the path of the car carrier that had already taken avoiding action by a turn the stbd

I think we're all pretty much agreed that the fishing boat took the wrong action. AIS only tells you what will happen if you maintain course and speed, it's still up to you to determine the correct action to take if you're heading for a collision.

 

[KellysEye]

>Translation: "I have no experience of it, and therefore little basis on which to give advice."

You don't have to experience something to make the point of why something is unnecessary and I explained why I believe that, based on reading what AIS does. If somebody wants to take that as advice then it's their choice.

We had radar.

I also believe chart plotter are pointless, and a waste of money, because you have to have charts as back up. I came to decisions on buying yacht kit from a long distance sailing point of view, I do understand others have a different point of view from the sailing they do.

> but on long offshore passages I wouldn't be without it.

Across the Atlantic we saw 1 ship, commercial routes are not the same as sailing routes, ships take a direct course yachts follow the trades so it very unusual to see ships as we experienced.

 

[maxi77]

I got my Bridge Watchkeeping Certificate on the bridge of a submarine, with no charts other than what you could remember before going on watch and no radar. Even so I find radar, AIS and Chartplotters very useful and would not be without them if they are available. They all provide valuable information quickly and in most cases in a form easy to assimilate which gives me more time to do the important things like make decisions.

Bad choices are often made when there is little time to weigh up the choices and choose the best one. Many situations in busy waters are complex with many options but only a few perhaps only one which is safe. In that case I want the maximum information always up to date and then I may have the time to make the best choice for that situation. Yes I can do it all with nothing but a compass, but why take risks you don't need to take, unless you want an long list of narrow escapes for your bar story telling

 

[Borden]

Kellyseye

You can sail with a piece of string for nav and seaweed for the weather if you wish. Personally I'd rather have a few more safety and nav devices as I value my life and those of my family.

You picked up on my statement below

> but on long offshore passages I wouldn't be without it.

Across the Atlantic we saw 1 ship, commercial routes are not the same as sailing routes, ships take a direct course yachts follow the trades so it very unusual to see ships as we experience.

I believe you've made my point. I've not been across the Atlantic but I bow to your superior knowledge. A long passage for me is Hamble to Lagos in three hops, that's about 1,100 miles, not much in your book but long enough and not surprisingly a crowded stretch of sea what with ships on passage from The Med heading north.

I've just looked up the volume of shipping (those broadcasting AIS) on 'Marine Traffic'. As of 5 mins ago there were 217 vessels in the sea area between Sicily, Tunisia and Sardinia.

I guess your argument also holds true for the Southern Ocean as well but I'm not going there.

 

[Koeketiene]

discuss

From the article:

Considering the existence of this video, it’s clear that both vessels were transmitting their AIS position, and that both vessels were aware of each other prior to the collision.

Fail to see how the usefulness of AIS is an issue here.
If any discussion is to be had, it is a simple COLREGS issue.

 

[LadyInBed]

No matter what nav aids the fishing boat had they were rendered useless by him taking the wrong action of turning to port.
It is a pity that we aren't privy to any VHF comms that SHOULD have taken place.

 

[johnalison]

Anything that reduces stress or tiredness on a short-handed yacht will increase safety. Our brief experience with AIS over two years' use suggests that it does fulfil this function, as does a plotter, and I don't think that an unfortunate event where AIS was available makes any difference to my opinion. It is perfectly possible to sail safely without either, but just more pleasurable with them.

 

[westhinder]

No matter what nav aids the fishing boat had they were rendered useless by him taking the wrong action of turning to port.
It is a pity that we aren't privy to any VHF comms that SHOULD have taken place.

Exactly. The big advantage of AIS is that you do not just see what the other is doing, but you have their name and MMSI, so you can call them and agree on how to avoid a problem arising.
If they did not contact one another (and I do not know whether they did or not) that is at least as mistifying.

 

[BrianH]

>How much use is AIS
We never used it seemed pointless, and a waste of money, when someone is always on watch using the Mark One eyeball.

I can remember when similar comments were made about 1991 in the yacht club about my hand-held Trimble Ensign GPS unit bought from the developer in Singapore, before it hit the market at over £1000. Mainly, of course, from those who couldn't afford one.

The same comment was expressed by large numbers in these forums back in 2008 when I reported on my AIS experiences from the previous year. At least most of those luddites have retreated back into the woodwork now that receivers have become more affordable and their benefits more widely experienced.

And always the cliché about the Mk I eyeball is invoked, as if visibility is always perfect - hah! To have the course, CPA and TCPA of a line of fast-moving monsters to know when to duck through them is an aid to the eyeball that is priceless ....

As for the OP, to imply that AIS was of no use (or at fault) is to imply that radar and even the Mk I eyeball was of no use - when in fact any of those attributes could have been MISused by a plain abuse of the colregs.

 

[Koeketiene]

As for the OP, to imply that AIS was of no use (or at fault) is to imply that radar and even the Mk I eyeball was of no use - when in fact any of those attributes could have been MISused by a plain abuse of the colregs.

+1

 

[KellysEye]

>And always the cliché about the Mk I eyeball is invoked, as if visibility is always perfect - hah!

As I mentioned we had radar.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

My Mk1 eyeball is good but it's sadly ineffective in fog, doesn't see very far at night and is rubbish at seeing around headlands. And clever as I am I can't tell the speed of a ship just by looking at it, and it's course isn't possible to guess closer than 20 degrees. So if it's OK I'll stick with AIS as an addition, the chap who dismissed it without actually trying it sounds rather silly.

 

[franksingleton]

AIS, RADAR and chart plotters will not ensure your safety. They are aids to safety. However, whether or not you use any or all, it is essential to follow good seamanship practice. Even thet will not guarantee your safety any more than good road behaviour.

You always have to watch for the other idiot. You always have to be aware that others will not always have AIS or that they may not be using it. Ships may not be monitoring Class B transmissions. It is interesting that Sailing Rallies Ltd advises yachts on its rallies to fit ClAss A AIS.

 

[GHA]

You don't have to experience something to make the point of why something is unnecessary and I explained why I believe that, based on reading what AIS does. .

It might be worth taking into consideration that you'll be hard pressed to find many people who have actually used ais for any length of time would agree with you.
Try it, for less than the cost of a sailing jacket you can have a box which quietly spits out extremely useful info for close to zero power draw.
More and more fishing boats transmit plus virtual AtoMs are slowly coming on line.
You don't know what you're missing!

 

[sailorman]

From the article:



Fail to see how the usefulness of AIS is an issue here.
If any discussion is to be had, it is a simple COLREGS issue.

quite so but the fishing boat knew where the car carrier was,course & spd ( via ais & radar) & still steered into it after the CC took the correct & early evasive action

 

[Koeketiene]

quite so but the fishing boat knew where the car carrier was,course & spd ( via ais & radar) & still steered into it after the CC took the correct & early evasive action

Radar/AIS assisted colision? It's been known.

Whatever your toys/gizmos, they are of little use if you fail to engage that grey matter between your ears.

 

[BrianH]

Radar/AIS assisted colision? It's been known.

Whatever your toys/gizmos, they are of little use if you fail to engage that grey matter between your ears.

As has been stressed constantly in different threads and here, all such are merely aids ... they provide data, nothing more, nothing less, for the "grey matter" to process. I value having details of a fast passenger ferry coming straight at me, including the name to call on channel 16, as I did in the scenario below, when only 1.1 nm away and with a closing speed of 38 knots.

 

[KREW2]

Mine is not used all the time, but handy to have when needed.
I've only relied it once for a long time, returning to Portland after doing the "Round the Island" a few years ago. Going down to the Needles it was reassuring to know where the Lymington to Yarmouth ferry was, as we could only here the boom of the fog horn. After that it was the Channel Islands Condor going into Poole, we could here the throb of the engines, it was nice to know that he was going to pass us a long way astern.
The only concern I have is when small boats transmit. About 3 miles out from Portland Harbour's north entrance the alarm kept going off, and continued non stop. We realised we were sailing almost parallel to a yacht that was some 500 meters inshore of us heading for the same entrance.

 

[doris]

>How much use is AIS

We never used it seemed pointless, and a waste of money, when someone is always on watch using the Mark One eyeball.

IMHO a stupid comment.
I have often heard radar referred to as the 'magic eye'. It enhances human eyesight but does not replace it. Just crossing the channel in good viz but with loads of shipping doing a variety of speeds from 8 kts to 28, AIS is invaluable.

I have no idea how many channel crossing I have done but it's a lot and an AIS receiver makes life hugely safer and more comfortable, it is also cheap. To consider it pointless and a waste of money is a comment form someone who probably uses a lead line, a piece of string with knots and drives to his boat in a pony and trap. But then square riggers are ponderous enuf to avoid easily.