How much of a difference does a topping lift make?

[Stemar]

On my 24 footer, as well as controlling the boom for raising, lowering and reefing the main, the TL has the vital function of allowing us to raise the boom away from skulls when not sailing. On a 22 footer (did I get that right?), I'd have thought that was a pretty important function as well. Since the mainsheet track goes across the companionway, we attach the boom to the backstay so we can put the sheet away when not moving

 

[coveman]

Would this work just as well? I think its definitely needed for reefing to hold the boom up.. Dont wanna wear the sails out more than necessary.
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Would this work just as well? I think its definitely needed for reefing to hold the boom up.. Dont wanna wear the sails out more than necessary.

I have one of these on my 22ft boat - the boat came with it. I've found it very simple to use - almost like an automatic topping lift - one less rope to pull and as soon as the mainsail is scandalized it keeps the boom away from your head - a good safety feature.

 

[johnalison]

A boom strut is a more effective way of providing safety and protecting the leach, as per #14, but although I have one, I still prefer to keep the topping-lift, which has one invaluable function. When it supports the weight of the boom in harbour it can, in some winds, produce a satisfying hum which can be heard for many yards around, and give hours of amusement as people try to trace the source of the mysterious sound.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

@DangerousPirate - is your roller reefing on the boom or vertically up the mast?

If it's on the boom you can't use a strut if you ever want to reef.

What's the arrangement for the kicking strap (boom vang)? With a roller boom you either need a claw or to roll a strap into the sail if you want to use it with reefs in.

Would you mind telling us what boat it is? It's pretty rare for anything other than a dinghy or keelboat to come without masthead sheave and provision at the bottom for a topping lift if it doesn't come with a strut.

Your backstay line will be fine at rest/under power, and you could even reef using it if it's not too windy and you're good on the helm, but you'll need to put the engine on and roll the jib away to keep the boat head to wind. You'll break something if you get it wrong though.

Dropping the boom to the side deck is a better alternative if you had slab reefing, but you'd not get tidy rolls into the sail like that.

I think your only real option would be to ease the main down as you roll the boom, matching the two speeds as exactly as possible. That way you'd get reasonably tidy rolls and the boom won't drop. With practice that'll work well. The two things you lose (as already mentioned) are the ability to lift the boom in very light wind, and the use as a spare halyard.

 

[Caraway]

The drive for the Barton roller reefing system is the same size as the square shaft that connects door handles through a door. (Mine was anyway).
Stick it in a battery drill/driver and you have powered reefing.
I can't see any reason not to have a topping lift, but quite a few to avoid changing to a boom strut.

I have had my topping lifts at the mast (on the Keep It Simple ethos). As it's a smaller line I have the end made fast to the cleat with enough slack to let it blow away from the leach and avoid rubbing. Then taking it in is simply matter of adjusting it and taking a couple of turns (with locking turn - and there a whole other argument) around the same cleat horns. On one boat this involved just two alternate position so I made a loop in the line at the shorter one, which just hooked on the lower cleat horn.

 

[Caraway]

The Westerly brochure shows a topping lift fitted. https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/a/a6/Fldr_Cirrus_1.pdf

 

[TernVI]

If you don't have either a topping lift or a strut kicker, slab reefing a boat of about 20 ft can be done like this;
Sailing a long, just cracked off from close hauled.
Release kicker
release main sheet
pull in reefing line to a mark. This will lift the boom, the kicker needs to have enough slack, and you want to know the end of the boom is not going to tangle with the backstay.
drop halliard to the mark.
pull the new tack down to the gooseneck (we used the cunningham tackle)
Tension reeefing line
Sheet in
Kicker on.

The above can be very, very quick. For the quickest, you want the marks in the right places and a second cleat or clutch on the halyard so it's preset reliably.
We used tensioner tackles permanently rigged or shared with the cunningham. Just a few blocks and clamcleats from the spares box.

On the rare occasions you want to take the weight of the boom while actually sailing in light airs, we would bring the kite halyard back and clip it to the boom.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Well, we raised the mast 2 days ago and had to figure out where stuff goes again because I wasnt present when the mast was dropped (due to distance, work and time managment, also the "lovely" english train system that had me be 2 hours late instead of an hour early.).

Had a pretty good look at the current system but we didnt see any topping lift or configuration for it. I might have overseen it but that seems unlikely. I dont know what the decision was to remove it from the previous owner.
Will have a look tomorrow at daylight to see if i see any unused blocks. Maybe a line is missing?

Edit: Just had a look at a picture I took in the day. There is not unused block.

So I guess Im going to try out the Barton Boomstrut.It looks easy to install, isnt to expensive and according to the videos some very skilled sailors use them.
Its also really one less sheet to deal with when being single handed.

When Irish people visit your country they marvel at your railway system.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I learned to sail, and later instructed, on Glenans 5.70s. Some of them had topping lifts. On the ones that did not, someone had to support the boom end during hoisting and reefing.
It was useful to be able to hoist the boom above head level when the main was down, on the ones that did have a t/l.
On all of the boats it was standard practice to lower the boom onto a dedicated pad on a cockpit seat when on the moorings. This helped to reduce unnecessary wear and tear on the gooseneck.

 

[BabaYaga]

When it supports the weight of the boom in harbour it can, in some winds, produce a satisfying hum which can be heard for many yards around, and give hours of amusement...

Have to disagree here, that hum is the opposite of satisfying (and frankly the only drawback of a topping lift that I can think of).
Luckily it can easily be avoided, by taking a bight of the reefing pennant to the topping lift, tying the so called 'hum stop knot'

 

[Topcat47]

The topping lift is essential to my single handed sailing as it makes reefing and dropping the main so simple, It also makes it very easy to remove the engine and gearbox, using the boom as a crane. I've even used the boom and toping lift to help a swimmer out of the water.

 

[DangerousPirate]

How do you reef the main ?

I guess the system you have is a the old Barton roller system
The Barton handles are available but they are stupid money so you will probably want to make something (picture of mine attached)

If you use the roller reefing you cannot use a boom strut instead you will have to convert to some form of slab reefing That will involve reefing points being fitted to the sail and either a reefing system system like the Barton slab reefing kit or Barton single line system. (I have in fact had reefing points fitted to the sail and I have fitted a Barton slab reefing kit but I keep the roller operational just in case I want to use it)

Looking at the original brochures for the Cirrus I can see a topping lift which once set up for normal sailing only needs a couple of turns round the cleat to take up the slack and support the boom.
No extra sheets are involved. just the topping lift itself but slab reefing will involve quite a bit of extra rope to handle

If you don't have an operational reefing system you need to think about that first, choosing between the existing roller reefing or a slab reefing system . The quickest, cheapest and easiest will be the roller ( and a topping lift)
Slab reefing is the better system but If you have to have reefing points put in the sail and buy the fittings and the rope for reefing lines it will be the most expensive and complicated option but it will allow you to fit a boom strut if you wish

A boom strut will cost a good deal more than the rope, block and shackles for a topping lift The largest part of £300 vs less than £100



View attachment 109840

I dont intend to use these, but yes its the very exact barton one. I had it on my other boat and didnt like it. So I pretended it doesnt exist and just went for a slab reefing system. I just wanted to answer the question if I have it.

Forgive me for being a pedant, but please stop referring to the topping lift as a ‘sheet’. It’s the ‘topping lift’ and if you want a generic short term it’s another ‘line’ as it’s not a sheet or a halyard etc. (Following the old saying that ‘There’s no such thing as rope on a boat; they’ve all got names.’)
Apologies for being picky but if you’re just starting out in this sailing lark, it’ll save a lot of confusion with crew if you reserve the term ‘sheet’ for the lines that pull the sails in and out.

And FWIW on any modestly sized cruising boat without a fancy gas strut etc I believe a topping lift is essential. And on bigger boats in light airs, the weight of the boom seriously affects sail shape. On our 39’ boat, the topping lift is led back to the cockpit and is in the clutch next to the main halyard clutch and is adjusted regularly. (Although that’s sometimes just to stop the clattering of the shackle where it’s clipped onto the end of the boom.)

Thanks, I wasnt sure what the right terminology is in english and also wanted to avoid saying Topping Lift all the time. And I am not sure how the previous owner sailed this boat without a topping lift really. But Ive been told its possible because the boom will be held up by the sail.

On my 24 footer, as well as controlling the boom for raising, lowering and reefing the main, the TL has the vital function of allowing us to raise the boom away from skulls when not sailing. On a 22 footer (did I get that right?), I'd have thought that was a pretty important function as well. Since the mainsheet track goes across the companionway, we attach the boom to the backstay so we can put the sheet away when not moving

Yes, that is exactly how its done with this boat. The boom hangs on the backstay when not in use. That part is not very confusing to me, its more how reefing is done. Because with full sails Im sure that you dont need a topping lift once the sails are up.

I have one of these on my 22ft boat - the boat came with it. I've found it very simple to use - almost like an automatic topping lift - one less rope to pull and as soon as the mainsail is scandalized it keeps the boom away from your head - a good safety feature.

Thats what went through my head when I read about it. It holds the boom up, like a topping lift, without any handling necessary. It kicks the boom up quite high and you pull it down to horizontal with the kicker.

A boom strut is a more effective way of providing safety and protecting the leach, as per #14, but although I have one, I still prefer to keep the topping-lift, which has one invaluable function. When it supports the weight of the boom in harbour it can, in some winds, produce a satisfying hum which can be heard for many yards around, and give hours of amusement as people try to trace the source of the mysterious sound.

Hm, I have the boom up right now on the backstay and its fairly windy today, I dont hear any summing. Maybe I am lucky and got a silent one

@DangerousPirate - is your roller reefing on the boom or vertically up the mast?

If it's on the boom you can't use a strut if you ever want to reef.

What's the arrangement for the kicking strap (boom vang)? With a roller boom you either need a claw or to roll a strap into the sail if you want to use it with reefs in.

Would you mind telling us what boat it is? It's pretty rare for anything other than a dinghy or keelboat to come without masthead sheave and provision at the bottom for a topping lift if it doesn't come with a strut.

Your backstay line will be fine at rest/under power, and you could even reef using it if it's not too windy and you're good on the helm, but you'll need to put the engine on and roll the jib away to keep the boat head to wind. You'll break something if you get it wrong though.

Dropping the boom to the side deck is a better alternative if you had slab reefing, but you'd not get tidy rolls into the sail like that.

I think your only real option would be to ease the main down as you roll the boom, matching the two speeds as exactly as possible. That way you'd get reasonably tidy rolls and the boom won't drop. With practice that'll work well. The two things you lose (as already mentioned) are the ability to lift the boom in very light wind, and the use as a spare halyard.

It is on the boom, its one of those old barton ones that roll the sail on the outside. I had one on my old boat and didnt like it. Not going to use it. Just mentioned it because I was asked if I have that or something else. I will definitely install either a topping lift or the boomstrut.

The Westerly brochure shows a topping lift fitted. https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/a/a6/Fldr_Cirrus_1.pdf

Hm, honestly it makes sense that it has a topping lift. Why this Cirrus doesnt have one is a mystery to me. Who knows? For now it doesnt have a topping lift.

When Irish people visit your country they marvel at your railway system.

Well, Im sure they do. But Im not british anyways.

The topping lift is essential to my single handed sailing as it makes reefing and dropping the main so simple, It also makes it very easy to remove the engine and gearbox, using the boom as a crane. I've even used the boom and toping lift to help a swimmer out of the water.

Okay, but I dont think Im going to lift anything heavy anytime soon, if at all. A boomstrut keeps the mast up aswell, with one line less to worry about. You still can reef your main, the boom stays up without a sail... It sounds like a good thing.
Essentially, in case someone doesnt know what it is (I didnt); It is a heavy duty spring fixed under the boom that pushes the boom up and swings with the boom around, essentially doest the same thing as a topping lift but in a different set up. The video I posted is very informative and fairly short.


Thanks so far for the answers.

 

[Allan]

Our boat is a little larger but I've always done the same when reefing the main. I was taught (by coincidence, by Glenans in France) that reefing should be done by taking the boom up to the sail, not the sail down to the boom. It may have been said for the reason mentioned earlier, not stressing the leech, but it makes reefing much easier. If I'm skipper there's also a rule, no reefing lines on winches! If you can't pull it in by hand, something is wrong, sort that without using the winch.
I did the same on my Etap 22i, although the topping lift was fixed and you had to lift the boom and hook it on to the next loop.

Allan

 

[john_morris_uk]

Our boat is a little larger but I've always done the same when reefing the main. I was taught (by coincidence, by Glenans in France) that reefing should be done by taking the boom up to the sail, not the sail down to the boom. It may have been said for the reason mentioned earlier, not stressing the leech, but it makes reefing much easier. If I'm skipper there's also a rule, no reefing lines on winches! If you can't pull it in by hand, something is wrong, sort that without using the winch.
I did the same on my Etap 22i, although the topping lift was fixed and you had to lift the boom and hook it on to the next loop.

Allan

Noble though your suggestion of ‘no reefing lines on winches’ is, I humbly suggest it doesn’t work on bigger boats. Nor on medium boats in strong winds. In half a gale with the main flogging, it might be better (and much kinder on the sail) to get the reefing pennant in quickly and efficiently. Reefs work best when the clew is pulled down and back TIGHTLY and on any moderately sized boat the last bit needs the winch to get the sail flattened nicely. All IMHO of course.

 

[William_H]

Our boat is a little larger but I've always done the same when reefing the main. I was taught (by coincidence, by Glenans in France) that reefing should be done by taking the boom up to the sail, not the sail down to the boom. It may have been said for the reason mentioned earlier, not stressing the leech, but it makes reefing much easier. If I'm skipper there's also a rule, no reefing lines on winches! If you can't pull it in by hand, something is wrong, sort that without using the winch.
I did the same on my Etap 22i, although the topping lift was fixed and you had to lift the boom and hook it on to the next loop.

Allan

I have to say regarding reefing line on a winch that even on my little boat I tighten the clew line of the reef on the winch. This because the clew reefing line provides the outhaul necessary for the foot of the mast. Small boat but 4 winches on the cabin top for halyards and reefing. I want a really good shaped main sail when reefed to permit best performance to wind ward. ol'will

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I have a little 08 size winch on my mast for the reefing lines. Raising the boom to the sail is how I was taught but there is still sometimes a need to use the winch to get the pennant tight.
I sailed on a lovely Vertue which is sadly no longer with us which had roller boom reefing with the boom on a slider. On her you definitely needed the topper on to reef as the boom was dropped at the mast and rolled up the sail to take the reef.

 

[zoidberg]

Like the op tho, I used to sail smaller boats like Hurly 22, etc and no topping lift was no problem.

That's what your right arm is for... or summat!

 

[MADRIGAL]

As I frequently sail single-handed, a topping lift was the first thing I added to the boat. Although I can reef without it by releasing the kicker and hauling in on the clew reefing line, as another poster described so well, I find I can make the clew line more effective as the outhaul if I first take the tension off the leach by raising the boom slightly with the topping lift, slacking off the halyard, and then tensioning the clew line. I also use the topping lift to raise the boom out of reach of my head under power or at anchor, and to scandalise the main while trolling under sail.

 

[PetiteFleur]

I have the Barton Boom Strut and it's excellent. 33' boat. I've kept the original topping lift, tied to the back stay as an emergency main halliard or even a topping lift if the strut fails. (Mine did but replaced under warranty - tip - don't leave the strut tensioned when leaving the boat)

 

[pyrojames]

Noble though your suggestion of ‘no reefing lines on winches’ is, I humbly suggest it doesn’t work on bigger boats. Nor on medium boats in strong winds. In half a gale with the main flogging, it might be better (and much kinder on the sail) to get the reefing pennant in quickly and efficiently. Reefs work best when the clew is pulled down and back TIGHTLY and on any moderately sized boat the last bit needs the winch to get the sail flattened nicely. All IMHO of course.

There is no way that I can pull a reef down without a winch. I also can't haul the boom up with the topping by hand. The boom is simply too heavy, so I do use the topping lift for sail trim in light airs, and if I need to raise the boom, I have to put a tail on the topping lift and take it to a winch too.

What goes for small, or light craft, does translate to bigger or older heavy vessels.