How much for shared expenses - Poll

[seagypsywoman]

How much for shared expenses - Poll

Some of us take crew on board to help during a passage or just to share our love of sailing, cruising and the ocean.

On the other hand, I often encourage people who want to learn to sail or experience the lifestyle before committing to buying a boat themselves to join cruisers that are already out there.

What do you consider is a reasonable amount to expect to contribute for shared expenses voyage?

 

[ebbtide]

Re: How much for shared expenses?l

If you sail like this enough times then(a) the crew realise you really do count the baked beans and (b) you will be able to make a realistic advance charge BUT with certain exceptions.
I excluded booze (ask someone else to run a kitty) and berthing (the disparity between anchoring for free and overpriced marinas is quite significant.
The important thing is to be seen to be fair.

 

[alan17]

Re: How much for shared expenses?l

This is a difficult question to answer because it depends on the range of the cruise and therefore the moorings. These could be overnight at anchor or in a marina. Over night on board must include dinner etc. There are many variables.

How much motoring will also be a variable.

As previous poster said the important thing is to be fair and to be seen to be fair.

 

[deaks]

Re: How much for shared expenses?l

I don't own a boat but have learned how to sail via RYA training and then sailing with friends and finally being able to charter boats and offer places to friends.

As people have already said there are many ways to work out what is a fair share.
So based on the approach of stating the daily amount in advance is maybe not the way to go IMHO.

Why? well if you are running a business fair enough state that up front and state your daily charge.
If on the other hand you are happy to underwrite the cost of certain things and then ask crew to share the costs actually incurred then state what they are, and at the end of the cruise everybody can see in a fair way what they are actually paying for, ie 6 nights in a marina because of lousy weather instead of being at anchor.

Having sailed with a number of friends on their boats I can honestly and happily say it's a great way to sail in various areas and to help to contribute to the not so small cost of owning and using one's pride and possession. I hope this helps

John

 

[Daipal]

Re: How much for shared expenses - Poll

I happily paid £250 for 10 days sailing around Sardinia and Corsica last summer. Some marinas, some anchorages, some night sailing. Shared duties. I wasn't keen on skippers cheap wine so I put some decent stuff on the table, otherwise all in on board. I bought him a pint if we went ashore.
If you charge much more you cross the line from crew to paying passenger and the whole expectation can change.
I quite fancy some sailing around Greece in the summer, but I do not have time to fill in the application form. I'm sure most job applications require less detail. I would have to answer affirmative to snoring anyway, so that is me blackballed !!!

 

[seagypsywoman]

Re: How much for shared expenses - Poll

Regarding an application - considering that whoever sees my website and blog knows a lot more about me than I know about prospective crew, I think it's only fair for them to fill out the application. However, if you have a website or blog I'm willing to look at it. I think the risk of two strangers meeting is reduced if both provide as much information as possible. Sorry about the snoring - unless you're willing to sleep on deck. I can't use ear plugs because I have to be aware of everything that's going on on the boat especially at anchor. I welcome any solution though.

 

[CalmSkipper]

Re: How much for shared expenses - Poll

Having looked at your website I think what you are doing is a great idea. I did however leave it feeling unclear about whether or not you are seeking crew to sail with and share tasks/expenses or whether you are runing a business. The written description made it feel like crew sharing expenses. The application form and the advance charging of fees made it feel like a business. Either model is fine from my point of view but I think you need to be very cear. Forgive a quick aside while I explain my thoughts.

A friend of mine had a party for his son's 10th birthday who invited lots of school friends around. One child twisted their ankle on the trampoline and to my friends bewilderent he received a letter from the parent saying they intended to take legal action for damages. My frind spoke to a lawyer and said it felt ludicrous because it was just some of his son's friends playing in the garden and it was agenuine accident. The lawyer simply asked him if he'd charged money to attend the party or to use the trampoline. When my friend replied 'of course not' the lawyer said there could be no claim against him, but if he had there could have been.

If pre-charging a set fee for your sailing venture is deemed to be the running of a business I guess you would then need a vesel coded for commercial use and a commercial skipper's licence. It sounds like you are an extremely experienced and competent sailor but if it became a legal matter it would be hard to defend a claim.

Please don't take this the wrong way. I think your offering looks great and I would love to do that sort of thing myself one day but I fear it has the potential to backfire on you if you pre-charge a set fee and you're not covering all of the insurance and licensing requirements needed by a business.

 

[CalmSkipper]

Re: How much for shared expenses - Poll

I recently registered my boat with 'find a crew'. They have an interesting distinction that may be of help here. They consider anything up to £15 a day to be covering expenses. Hope this helps

 

[peterb26]

Re: How much for shared expenses - Poll

[ QUOTE ]

A friend of mine had a party for his son's 10th birthday who invited lots of school friends around. One child twisted their ankle on the trampoline and to my friends bewilderent he received a letter from the parent saying they intended to take legal action for damages. My frind spoke to a lawyer and said it felt ludicrous because it was just some of his son's friends playing in the garden and it was agenuine accident. The lawyer simply asked him if he'd charged money to attend the party or to use the trampoline. When my friend replied 'of course not' the lawyer said there could be no claim against him, but if he had there could have been.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you read this then that lawyer got it entirely wrong......

 

[PeterGibbs]

Re: How much for shared expenses - Poll

Why not make the arrangemnt one of contributing to actual costs divvied out over all on board?

Typical 35 ft boat might be:

Marina /day - Euro 30
Food / day - E15 (4 persons bfast and lunch)
Fuel /day - E 8 (6 litres / 2hrs running)

Eat ashore each night assumed, own account.

Clearly the boat account is higher if the marina charge is for fashionable/top of the season, and nothing if anchoring.

Also more if dinner is cooked on board, and even more if empty bottles go clanking down into the bilges!

Fair to everyone, I would have thought, if a payment on account is made and the actual settled on the change of crew. A range of expected costs can be given in advance so crew can come funded.

Can't be so hard - I manage it this way.

PWG

 

[srm]

Re: How much for shared expenses - Poll

Have looked at your web site and application form. Looks very much like a commercial venture so do not be surprised if you fall foul of local regs and laws. Having run a charter yacht for 8 years taking individual berth bookings I never felt the need for so much advanced info. from potential crew -again this makes you look like a member of the commercial league.

I stopped running my own charter yacht as I got fed up with petty officialdom, and would be very wary of advertising and running a boat in the way you are as it is unlikely to be a safe way around the laws on commercial operations. (I just skipper other people's charter boats and let them sort out the paper work now, but that's only when not sailing my own boat)

I would strongly suggest that you familiarise yourself with the definitions, requirements and penalties for commercial chartering, as well as the rules for crew changes, in the areas that you are advertising to take people sailing, as well as the boat's flag state regulations.

Oh another thought, have your insurers seen your website and approved your way of working? - because if not they may decide that you are commercial and refuse a claim if your policy does not cover such activity .

The basic test for a commercial operation is "does money change hands" but then you are well aware of all this and have checked everything out and know that everything is going to be fine where you are sailing.

Hope all goes well for you. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[goosewing]

I happily paid £250 for 10 days sailing around Sardinia and Corsica last summer. Some marinas, some anchorages, some night sailing. Shared duties. I wasn't keen on skippers cheap wine so I put some decent stuff on the table, otherwise all in on board. I bought him a pint if we went ashore.
If you charge much more you cross the line from crew to paying passenger and the whole expectation can change.
I quite fancy some sailing around Greece in the summer, but I do not have time to fill in the application form. I'm sure most job applications require less detail. I would have to answer affirmative to snoring anyway, so that is me blackballed !!!

Can i be nosey and ask the name of the boat you were sailing on?

 

[Mudisox]

Shared Day to day, out of pocket expenses

Surely the nub of the issue is in the question asked.
If, and I do mean IF you explain in advance what sort of cruise is intended and the lifestyle that you intend to lead, it is expected that the people coming will share out equally that which goes out.
Gas, Fuel, food, drink, boat fees and sometimes shore side meals drinking is all from the kitty. Diffcult sometimes to ensure that these things are topped up but in general itwill be swings and roundabouts. Insurance, maintenance etc is up to the owner.
[Although I would expect a crew member to help with maintenance if that is also part of the cruise. ]
For many new crew it is cheaper than going on a school boat, you learn to be someone worth asking again and how many folk do you know that you avoid because they have deep pockets and short arms. We all know how much it costs to sail on our own.

Friends who come with me are always generous, but one individual baulked at £450 for a 4+ week cruise that turned out to be almost 24 hr instruction on my part. Will he be asked again- I think not.