how many bilge pumps?

[chubby]

Having discovered my manual bilge pump, a whale ? 15 was obsolete in 1989 and no longer sucks anything, I got thinking about a replacement and the chap in the chandlery asked how many I have for a 32 footer, is one enough or should I have two, in the cockpit and in the cabin or to pump to both port and starboard in case the boat is heeling? I usually sail single handed and can only pump one at a time or is redundancy good in case one blocks or by that stage are you scuppered anyway?

How many have used a bilge pump in anger in an emergency rather than just clearing the bit of water that always seems to come fom somewhere, perhaps when I clear the log impellor.

I usually clear the bilge with the electric pump and have never used the manual one in anger.

An ancillary question is how many electric pumps and are they automatic and left on, on the basis you would rather a flat batery than sunk boat, indeed if you had a sunk boat you woulf have knackered the batteries anyway! With a starting and twin domestic battery system the worst I could do is the flaten one domestic battery?

 

[Robert Wilson]

I have two, one in cabin and one in cockpit, plus an auto electric pump. I have only used them for general pumping;never in anger. However, I am reliably informed that if you spring a leak (proper one eg sheared/corroded seacock or hit something) then a hand bilge pump isn't going to save you. Fixing that sort of a leak is paramount[/B
I hope that helps with your dilema. I'd say stick with the arrangement like mine - for convenience's sake.
Good luck

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I have used a bilge-pump in anger, many, many years ago! As a young lad, I was crewing for a friend on the river Humber. His boat was plywood, and we must have slammed down on a log or something. Water was coming in fast, and while our friend was bailing with a bucket, I was pumping like mad. Fortunately, we were in company with my Dad's boat, and were towed into (I think) North Ferriby.

My brother actually remembered this better than I did, and had to remind me about it!

I actually think that the bucket had more to do with us staying afloat than my pumping; I think our friend was shifting far more water that way than I was with a manual bilge-pump. It is an ancient piece of wisdom that the fastest way of miving water is a frightened person with a bucket!

 

[macd]

Redundancy is surely good, especially if you sail single-handed. Pumps don't just fail: they clog up, especially after a knock-down. It's hard to fix one and bale at the same time.

My last boat had a deep, narrow sump in the keel, at the bottom of which it was only possible to fit a relatively small (500gph?) automatic pump. Eventually I fitted one of six times that capacity on a step about 300mm above the other. Ideally it would never be called on to pump. But having it there was a big reassurance.

Obviously bilge layout would often dictate what is possible, but to my mind for single-handers in particular, two automatic pumps are prudent.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

We have an electric Henderson MkV, a manual ditto, and a cunning arrangement to divert the suction from the Lavac to pump the bilge. We also have a hose that goes from the shower waste pump to the bilge but which I would not expect to be much help in a genuine water ingress emergency. I have always managed to keep the water mostly outside any boat I have been involved with but it's good to know one has adequate means of getting rid of a modest flow, at least.

 

[Chalker]

2 Hand pumps, saloon and cockpit
1 small electric for the sump
Just ordered 2 3700gph Rule type pumps, 1 to install, 1 with battery clips as spare/ emergency with a roll-flat pipe (1 1/2")

Only time we had to seriously handpump was when the cabin sole was aswash. Rapid!! hunt for the leak that turned out to be the two water tanks emptying themselves when a tank moved and dragged a connection apart.
Relief all tround

 

[Deleted member 36384]

...... It is an ancient piece of wisdom that the fastest way of miving water is a frightened person with a bucket!

Ah but is it? I believe that the this has been tested a number of times. One article on bilge pump flow rates and the crash test boat tests (IIRC). I conclusion being that a man with a bucket is far more inefficient than a steady pumping action on a bilge pump over time.

Anyway, back to the OP. I don't have any electric pumps just a manual in the cockpit and an engine driven 'salvage' pump. I do have another to fit for indoor use when all the hatches are shut.

If I was on a mooring I would have an electric one switched on to operate on demand. I have never had to pump a boat out in an emergency but I have sailed on leaky boats that needed pumping frequently.

 

[Poignard]

I have two old Whale Gusher brass plunger pumps and a bucket.

 

[lw395]

I've used manual bilge pumps a lot in keelboats like x-boats, where the water comes over the coamings with every wave.

For a yacht, I think the RORC requirement of one manual pump you can use from the helm, and one you can use from below with the hatches shut has some sense behind it.

I have a thing about automatic electric pumps on GRP yachts, they should not be necessary, and run the risk of pumping oil or diesel spillages over the side, earning you a large fine.
OTOH if you have a keel stepped mast that lets water in, you should have some means of pumping that water out before it gets near the engine and its oil drips.

Whatever pumps you have, you can always have a hole too big for them to cope, but you also have to consider water that will get in due to waves swamping the cockpit, being knocked down, hatch failure etc basically all the 79 Fastnet stuff.
You not only want to stop the boat sinking, but also keep the water below the batteries and engine.

Rule type pumps are so cheap, it is a no-brainer to have a couple, but bear in mind the GPH figure is at zero lift and falls to 'not much' on the end of a long hose working against even a modest head. Certainly the baby ones won't lift water more than 2m, dunno about the bigger ones. It's easy to have 2m head if you are sailing and the outlet is on the windward side.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I have a manual in the cockpit and two electric pumps in the bilges. I also have a big electric industrial type (240v) pumps that I can use in emergency which plugs in the inverter.

 

[Frankie-H]

We have an electric Henderson MkV, a manual ditto, and a cunning arrangement to divert the suction from the Lavac to pump the bilge. We also have a hose that goes from the shower waste pump to the bilge but which I would not expect to be much help in a genuine water ingress emergency. I have always managed to keep the water mostly outside any boat I have been involved with but it's good to know one has adequate means of getting rid of a modest flow, at least.

Very similar. I have a belief that you can not have too many bilge pumps. Like any insurance, you probably won't need them but if you do.........

We also have a tube for the Lavac, a 2 way valve on the shower pump which enables it to suck from the fwd bilge, the normal electric pump with auto switch, a hand operated Henderson mk 5. We also have a 2 way valve on the main engine inlet, which enables it to suck from the bilge, before the strainer. This has the added benefit of being able to flush the engine through and then fill it with antifreeze for the winter. Our 72 hp Perkins is probably the most powerful and reliable bilge pump on the boat.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Ah but is it? I believe that the this has been tested a number of times. One article on bilge pump flow rates and the crash test boat tests (IIRC). I conclusion being that a man with a bucket is far more inefficient than a steady pumping action on a bilge pump over time.

Anyway, back to the OP. I don't have any electric pumps just a manual in the cockpit and an engine driven 'salvage' pump. I do have another to fit for indoor use when all the hatches are shut.

If I was on a mooring I would have an electric one switched on to operate on demand. I have never had to pump a boat out in an emergency but I have sailed on leaky boats that needed pumping frequently.

As with all things, I suspect that the truth of the bucket wisdom depends on the situation. On the boat I was on, a plywood boat perhaps 18' long, there was little difference in height between the cockpit and the cabin sole, so the bucket could be used in a scooping action. If the bucket had to be filled and emptied with a lift and carry between, then I would expect it to be slower. But as it as, our friend was certainly shifting far more water than I was using the bilge-pump. As it was about 50 years ago, I don't recall the type of the bilge pump, but it was of a type commonly fitted to such boats in those days.

I don't have and certainly wouldn't rely on an electrical bilge-pump, as my batteries would probably flood pretty quickly in the event of a major ingress of water! But I do know that my bilge-pump (a Whale Gusher) can pump water out faster than I can get it in with a hose-pipe, and probably fast enough to keep up with a failed sea-cock or suchlike (which don't actually let water in all that fast; it is like cleaning the impeller of the log, which is scary the first time you do it, but actually lets in very little water).

 

[lenten]

similar to frankie-h----for a real powerful bilge pump its difficult to beat a jabsco belt driven off the engine-----and blowingoldboots a bucket is better than a pump in real life not magazine test conditions-----regards lentenrose

 

[matelot]

One pump operating from the cockpit. Never get any water at all in the bilge and cannot imagine a leak which is small enough to be dealt with by a manual pump yet big enough to be an issue. Even removing the log can produce more water than the pump and me will handle.

I prefer an up to date life raft, an epirb and a decent insurance policy.

 

[onesea]

On modern plastic boats I do not see the likely hood of ending up on a collinder, are slim...

IMHO With fiber glass boats if you can get past the initial disaster you are likely to be able to plug or repair the leak(s) and reduce it to very manageable proportions...

In the days of wooden boats there was a much greater likely to be on the floating collinder. Keep pumping or sink..

Seams opening and continuous or frequent pumping required through numerous small leaks... To me that's the situation where quality high volume pumps are really likely to make a difference?

 

[Robert Wilson]

But I do know that my bilge-pump (a Whale Gusher) can pump water out faster than I can get it in with a hose-pipe, and probably fast enough to keep up with a failed sea-cock or suchlike (which don't actually let water in all that fast; it is like cleaning the impeller of the log, which is scary the first time you do it, but actually lets in very little water).

That's reassuring. I have yet to experience it - but it will happen one day!

 

[prv]

I have used bilge pumps in anger, when the transducer jumped out of its socket in a chartered boat and we didn't notice (hatch closed) until the water was above the bunks. I was steering and pumping on the cockpit pump, someone else was working the one in the cabin, and two people were passing buckets up the companionway. There was an electric whirring away too.

We were very glad we had all those facilities, but as Robert says, the priority is to stop the leak. You're unlikely to keep up with a real leak with the kit on most yachts, it's for emptying out once the hole is mostly plugged.

Pete

 

[charles_reed]

I have used a bilge-pump in anger, many, many years ago! As a young lad, I was crewing for a friend on the river Humber. His boat was plywood, and we must have slammed down on a log or something. Water was coming in fast, and while our friend was bailing with a bucket, I was pumping like mad. Fortunately, we were in company with my Dad's boat, and were towed into (I think) North Ferriby.

My brother actually remembered this better than I did, and had to remind me about it!

I actually think that the bucket had more to do with us staying afloat than my pumping; I think our friend was shifting far more water that way than I was with a manual bilge-pump. It is an ancient piece of wisdom that the fastest way of miving water is a frightened person with a bucket!

Nothing moves water faster than a frightened woman (or man) with a bucket.

I've got 2 manual and 3 electric, strategically situate around my boat.

1 & 2. Manual, operated from cockpit draining main bilge - 1 electric in the same position.

3. Manual by heads bilge.

4. Electric in engine bilge (that's the most used)

5. Electric in bottom of cockpit locker.

 

[testmonkey]

Have some experience on bilge pumps - had a classic carvel mahogany yacht with plank seams opening a bit when boat pushed hard on its side. After a windy day sail took a day or two for leaking to return to normal... Medium size automatic bilge pump in the bilge plus a big electric with manual on/off higher up kept things ok normally. More than once woke up early hours in the night when the setup failed and water level reached my bunk... Very important was good quality float switch, only thing that really worked reliably was a "waterwitch". In addition had a manual hand operated pump at helm station, this proved essential when batteries had failed - which also did happen... When you really have water coming in - nothing beats automatic electric pumps as that let's you to focus on sailing and when required - look for source of the leaks or alternatively a safe haven. Quite often on this boat had both electric pumps continuously on and even had to help with manual pumps occasionally. Cheap plastic hand operated pumps are useless - had a couple of them but they always failed after a couple of hours of real use - either a handle broke off or something similar. Then got an expensive brand metal pump and that worked well. In retrospect was a smart move to finally find a person who bought the boat and started a full restoration. Anyhow - my current GRP boat has two big powerful electric pumps plus a big hand pump at helm station. Also carry a big 230v mains pump, and whilst that is too strong for my inverter has already earned it's keep by helping another boat just about to sink in the marina...

 

[vyv_cox]

Ah but is it? I believe that the this has been tested a number of times. One article on bilge pump flow rates and the crash test boat tests (IIRC). I conclusion being that a man with a bucket is far more inefficient than a steady pumping action on a bilge pump over time.

See this for my test of the theory. I found that lifting a bucket over the height of my companionway to tip it into the cockpit was an exhausting activity. Maybe different if you could throw the water and not be bothered about wetting the saloon but my flooding was not that dangerous.