How long from Bordeaux - London, in Napoleons day?.

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alant

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In a recent episode of Sharpe, his wife was told, that she could sail fom Bordeaux & be in London in 3 days!

Distance to Portsmouth is about 400 Nm, if taking that route, then mail coach to London
 
Let's see....

The mailcoach would travel the ~85 miles at 5-8mph, taking about 16 hours.

Assuming an hour to transfer between ship and shore at Portmouth, the 400nm at sea would need an average of 7.27kts. That's possible, IMHO, in the right weather conditions - but, as there would be tidal streams to contend with all the way, few at the time would think of other than the average 5 knots.

That implies 80 hours to P'mouth, with the London journey still to do, so I would think that a 'throwaway' remark of 3 days would be an unlikely prediction from an experienced seafarer.

;)
 
Endymion class frigates in the Royal Navy, c 1800 onwards, were capable of up to 14 kts. That's over 300 miles in a day.

In Rochefort, France, those enviable and passionate historical sailing people are building a full-size replica of Hermione, a ship of 210 length with over 16000 sq feet of canvas. She is expected to reach above 12 noeuds
http://www.hermione.com/home/
 
sarabande said:
Endymion class frigates in the Royal Navy, c 1800 onwards, were capable of up to 14 kts. That's over 300 miles in a day.
http://www.hermione.com/home/
Click to expand...

One o' they would scarcely be likely to be available to Sharpe's lady, given the different period. And 'capable of up to 14 knots' does not impute an average.

She'd be better waiting for something like....

orange.jpg


:)
 
sarabande said:
Endymion class frigates in the Royal Navy, c 1800 onwards, were capable of up to 14 kts. That's over 300 miles in a day.

In Rochefort, France, those enviable and passionate historical sailing people are building a full-size replica of Hermione, a ship of 210 length with over 16000 sq feet of canvas. She is expected to reach above 12 noeuds
http://www.hermione.com/home/
Click to expand...

It is also worth remembering that the RN had many smaller, unrated craft that were capable of high speed and good windward performance. These would be fore-and-aft rigged, with hull shapes like those that evolved into the clippers of later years. They would be large by the standards of modern yachts, so hull-speed wouldn't be a problem. These were used for carrying despatches, and also moving people. Further, the sailors of the day would have been GOOD at working tides and so on; their ability to get places depended on it.

Not evidence, because it is fiction, but Patrick O'Brien tells of a vessel of this kind (Jack Aubrey's "Ringle") making the trip from France to the Thames in about 24 hours - with a lot of luck with tides and wind, of course! And although it is fiction, Patrick O'Brien tended to do his research carefully using log-book accounts.
 
When Bernard Cornwell (not his real name) wrote the early Sharpe novels his favoured mode of ocean going transport was a Cornish Crabber which he kept in Devon ... he could be forgiven for getting the timing wrong ... Cornish Crabbers make as much leeway as headway!

P.S. He kept it at Starcross, up the estuary from Exmouth .. just remembered the name of the place!
 
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AntarcticPilot said:
It is also worth remembering that the RN had many smaller, unrated craft that were capable of high speed and good windward performance. These would be fore-and-aft rigged, with hull shapes like those that evolved into the clippers of later years. They would be large by the standards of modern yachts, so hull-speed wouldn't be a problem. These were used for carrying despatches, and also moving people. Further, the sailors of the day would have been GOOD at working tides and so on; their ability to get places depended on it.

Not evidence, because it is fiction, but Patrick O'Brien tells of a vessel of this kind (Jack Aubrey's "Ringle") making the trip from France to the Thames in about 24 hours - with a lot of luck with tides and wind, of course! And although it is fiction, Patrick O'Brien tended to do his research carefully using log-book accounts.
Click to expand...

Where in France was it from?

70 miles up the Thames, approx 12 hrs at 6 knts overground, plus the bit from France to the Thames Estuary.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
 
alant said:
Where in France was it from?

70 miles up the Thames, approx 12 hrs at 6 knts overground, plus the bit from France to the Thames Estuary.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Click to expand...

Reply,

Not sure - SW Approaches to the Channel, I think. But it might have been the coast of Spain - I'd have to re-read the book, and I can't recall which one it was! And the point was made that they carried the tide the whole way, and had favourable winds - for a fore-and-aft rig.

Even if O'Brien's account is feasible - and it reads as if it was - then it depended on extraordinary luck, a crew extremely familiar with their craft, and enormous navigational skill.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
It is also worth remembering that the RN had many smaller, unrated craft that were capable of high speed and good windward performance. These would be fore-and-aft rigged, with hull shapes like those that evolved into the clippers of later years. They would be large by the standards of modern yachts, so hull-speed wouldn't be a problem. These were used for carrying despatches, and also moving people. Further, the sailors of the day would have been GOOD at working tides and so on; their ability to get places depended on it.
Click to expand...

Intriguing to consider the problems of such a task. Perhaps one of the best accounts, and which give some insight into the realities of the time is the account of HMS Pickle's bringing the news of Trafalgar.

Well worth a read and a muse....


pickle.jpg



After the battle and death of the Commander in Chief, it fell to Admiral Cuthbert Collingwood to write the dispatch for the Admiralty. He selected the schooner, Pickle, one of the fast advice boats, to take the news back to Britain. John Lapenotiere had been in command of the vessel in 1802 and had previously served with Admiral John Jervis. The schooner set off on the 26 October and took 9 days to reach Britain, enduring a gale off Cape Finisterre. The vessel was blown off course and Lapenotiere ordered that 4 carronades to be cast overboard to lighten the load.

At 9.45am on November 4, the Pickle anchored in Falmouth Bay. By midday, Lapenotiere was on his way to London in a hired post-chaise coach, displaying a Union Flag and a tattered Tricolour on a broomstick as a flagpole. The normal journey took a week, but within 37 hours, after 19 horse changes, Lapenotiere arrived at the Admiralty at 1am on 6 November. He was shown through to the First Secretary of the Admiralty, Mr Marsden. Lord Barham, First Lord of the Admiralty was raised from his sleep to receive the news. The Prime Minister, William Pitt received the news at 3am and King George III and Queen Charlotte heard at 7am. As the news was being broadcast across the city with saluting guns from the Tower of London, the news was also received by an hysterical Emma Hamilton. Lapenotiere was later given an audience with the King and Queen and was presented with a silver cruet, the first thing the King could find to hand. He was also promoted to Commander.
Click to expand...

:)
 
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