How important is using the correct terminolgy.

[Nostrodamus]

Except, of course, for the important point that 'left' and 'right' depend on whether you're facing 'forwards' 'or 'backwards', whereas 'port' and 'starboard' are clear and unambiguos.

Depends if you know what port and starboard mean and if you know your left from your right. Some people don't.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Actually I think port, starboard, bow and stern are the most redundant terms. Left, right, front and back are perfectly unambiguous.

With respect, in those words you are wrong. I think you have hit on some of the nautical terms that really are necessary. Left and right are completely ambiguous on a boat. If you are on the foredeck and want a sheet freed off from the cockpit whose left or right are you using? Asking someone in the cockpit to, "Free the left sheet" begs the question of "Who's left? Mine or yours?" from the crew at the back end of the boat...

 

[Nostrodamus]

If you tell people on a boat starboard is always on the right looking forward isn't it as easy to say the right will always be on the right looking forward.?

 

[Neil_Y]

I find crew get confused easily

 

[NealB]

Except that on the next boat, the next skipper might define things from the foredeck looking aft.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If you tell people on a boat starboard is always on the right looking forward isn't it as easy to say the right will always be on the right looking forward.?

You can try, but wait until you are trying to describe something when you are upside down in the engine bay... Port and starboard, fore and aft are unambiguous and that's why they are used.

 

[Nostrodamus]

You can try, but wait until you are trying to describe something when you are upside down in the engine bay... Port and starboard, fore and aft are unambiguous and that's why they are used.

If starboard is always on the right looking forward, right is on the right looking forward then you have one less thing to equate back to left and right.
Neal.. if the mad skipper decides that then left and right will still be the same as saying starboard is on the right looking back.. right is still on the right looking back.

 

[NealB]

But that skipper is not just mad.....he also doesn't know what port and starboard mean.

 

[NealB]

With many terms, the terminology really doesn't matter.

I like to use the nautical words, because, to me, it makes being on a boat..well...more 'boaty' (yes, very childish, I know).

So on my boats, for example, we use the heads, we cook in the galley, and we sleep in berths which are in cabins.

I agree that using the toilet, cooking in the kitchen and sleeping in beds which are in rooms, means the same thing, so would not really make any difference to communication.

But it does make it less fun (to me).

However, in other cases, the correct terminology is either simpler (eg how would you refer to a kicking strap, or a gammon iron?), or it is much clearer (eg port and starboard).

So, terminology is not really that important except in situations where it's important!

 

[Nostrodamus]

With many terms, the terminology really doesn't matter.

I like to use the nautical words, because, to me, it makes being on a boat..well...more 'boaty' (yes, very childish, I know).

So on my boats, for example, we use the heads, we cook in the galley, and we sleep in berths which are in cabins.

I agree that using the toilet, cooking in the kitchen and sleeping in beds which are in rooms, means the same thing, so would not really make any difference to communication.

But it does make it less fun (to me).

However, in other cases, the correct terminology is either simpler (eg how would you refer to a kicking strap, or a gammon iron?), or it is much clearer (eg port and starboard).

So, terminology is not really that important except in situations where it's important!

agreed... by me anyway

 

[Sandyman]

I've always taken the view that the important thing is to be understood, I can understand that language can exclude the uninformed, it can also include by making us feel we are part of some special group with our own special words. I do dislike it when nautical language is used to convey some sort of spurious superiority because someone has used the wrong word. It can of course be useful for clarity assuming everyone in the conversation does know what the terms mean.

Best story I heard about nautical language, was a skipper not good at remembering the right term for each sheet / rope / halyard getting heated and shouting pull the f****** rope in, no not that f****** rope, that f****** rope!

Suppose the message got through in the end.

Thanks glashen. I was going to start a similar thread following my postings yesterday but you beat me to it BZ

All our sheets/halyards have a different and distinctive colour.
They're always referred to by their colour.
Works for us and IMO leaves no room for error.

No room for error as long as that person is sailing on YOUR boat. I would suggest you are doing that person a disservice.
Yes it works for you but what happens when that chap/chapess goes on someone else's yacht and finds them self like a fish out of water, because the skipper uses different coloured sheets & halyards to yours ?
Far better for him to know what sheet/halyard is what and what it does.

Important I reckon. Things can go wrong very quickly and even quicker when a panic ensues due to misunderstandings. "Ease that sheet out please", whilst pointing clearly at the sheet in question, usually results in quick learning and less screw ups during the whole experience. Novices then go home pleased that they understand things and will be more welcome on any boat in future. Screaming "that f***** rope" enlightens nobody!

Exactly. Should you find yourself in an emergency situation it is even more important to get things right first time.

I think this is likely to be another ensigns etiquette type thread. I guess the language you use depends on who you're talking to. Some people like using the nautical terms, some people insist on it and some people really don't care much either way.

I like using the "correct" nautical terms but I don't get all upset if someone else doesn't.

No need to get upset, educate them into the reasons why its beneficial to know & use the correct terminology. I really do not understand why people cannot be bothered to learn
the correct terms. Its not a matter of one upmanship or snobbery. Its common sense for everyone to ( I was going to say ''Sing from the same Hymn Sheet''............but being a well know Atheist ) lets say be on the same wavelength

Similarly, I've known soldiers refer to their rifle as a "bang-stick". Pete

Fired many a 7.62 bang stick If you're a golfer do you go on a golf course & refer to your clubs, woods, irons & putter, as hitting sticks kept in a stick bag ?
The joking side of it is fine as long as you know the correct term should it need to be used.

Whilst I'm reasonably well acquainted with most nautical jargon I do tend to go with more infantile terminology. Sharp end and blunt end for example, except that I have a double ender, so it's sharp end and the other sharp end. Up f*ckers and down f*ckers aplenty and I often give the command "turning round!" when tacking.

It makes life more fun, and stops people taking themselves too seriously.

Yep understand that & there is no reason to do otherwise, but you do understand the correct terminology should you need to communicate it outside of your boat.

It's why keeping every rope on its own pin is important. Then it really does come down to calling things by their correct names.

Another exactly that way everyone one knows what does what & what goes where.

"How important is using the correct terminolgy."

How important is using the correct spelling and a question mark? ;-)

Speeling. Not my strongest of points If everyone uses the accepted grammar then how much easier it is to communicate.

One of my watch leaders on my recent sailing trip told me about a corporate race he'd taken part in using the sunsail fleet. One of the opposition skippers gave every novice crew a line and a number and just yelled for each number to haul in or let out. I was told it was very successful and the crew felt very proud to nearly win.
.

Can see how it would work racing with a novice crew but I think that is a selfish & stupid way of doing things. Would be far better if they were to learn what they were doing & why.
A novice is on the start of a long learning curve & I see no benefit to them by using numbers.

If i sail on someone else's boat or a stranger sails on mine then using the correct terminology is less confusing & saves time in difficult or in a "rush" situation & it is safer. Everyone knows what is meant. Unless they are in the " novice, just learning" stage, in which case the skipper has to assess the level of understanding & act accordingly

Spot on.

Most people who have sailed for a while will know the terminology anyway but "plonkers" who insist on using it at every opportunity really annoy me.
If they are real plonkers and start waffling on we just say "what's one of those?" and claim complete ignorance. It is amazing to see peoples faces trying to work out how you managed to get so far.
When we are asked what sort of boat we have the wife always says "One of those white plastic ones" and claims to not know anything else about it.
We have found that people we like tend to talk about other things other than sailing. They are the ones who when you meet them in the bar are not wearing any clothes that can identify them with sailing.
We are all different and does it matter what language you use as long as you understand.
As I said in another thread. It is like sex. There are correct words but they are never used unless you are seeing a doctor. Most people use numerous alternatives but they seem to get there in the end.

I take your point Mark and agree mostly with what you say, but at sea, in a totally different environment, its no good seemingly to get there in the end. In an emergency situation knowing the correct terminology could mean the difference between life & death. You don't have to use it all the time, I don't, just know it for when you do.
We are both ex-Navy and use Navy Speak onboard. This would be totally alien to you. If I were to talk to you I would use Nautical Terminology in the assumption that you would
understand what I was saying & we could communicate on the same level.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Anyway, that's my views & opinions which will never change. Maybe I'm out of touch & out of date with today's modern sailors. First went to sea in 1971. Never had a serious accident.
Never even gone aground. Attended a few Mayday's but never had to call one. Yes, I take the safety side of sailing very seriously, but that does not mean I cannot enjoy it at the same time.

Not saying I get everything right, but I do know the importance of using the correct terminology when its needed.

Roger Dodge over & out & BZ to all those that do likewise

 

[glashen]

With many terms, the terminology really doesn't matter.

I like to use the nautical words, because, to me, it makes being on a boat..well...more 'boaty' (yes, very childish, I know).

So on my boats, for example, we use the heads, we cook in the galley, and we sleep in berths which are in cabins.

I agree that using the toilet, cooking in the kitchen and sleeping in beds which are in rooms, means the same thing, so would not really make any difference to communication.

But it does make it less fun (to me).

However, in other cases, the correct terminology is either simpler (eg how would you refer to a kicking strap, or a gammon iron?), or it is much clearer (eg port and starboard).

So, terminology is not really that important except in situations where it's important!

Fair POV, I tend to agree that Port and Starboard are clearer and since they matter in the ColRegs are a good idea to use on boats from the outset, terms for bits of the boat fair enough within reason (I didn't know what a gammon iron was, not surprising really I don't have bowsprit). As far as ropes go, as other have said pull the blue one is a lot clearer than "swig the fore halyard". Well it is to me. It isn't the terminology that is important surely, it is being clear as to your meaning that matters, but I also agree it can be fun using the right language.

So the next time I have a banyan and I am athwartships and avast a saltie, my baggywrinkles in my fine fettle and my dunnage stowed I'll drop my killick before we sink the gash fanny from a whelkie to belay any jetsam whilst watching the horizon for an Ox-eye.

 

[prv]

If you're a golfer do you go on a golf course & refer to your clubs, woods, irons & putter, as hitting sticks kept in a stick bag ?

I play neither golf nor cricket, and like to make out that they're incomprehensible and boring . Therefore I tend to refer to "golf bats" and "cricket sticks"

Pete

 

[Daydream believer]

Except, of course, for the important point that 'left' and 'right' depend on whether you're facing 'forwards' 'or 'backwards', whereas 'port' and 'starboard' are clear and unambiguos.

+1

 

[MASH]

The modern obsession with rubbishing tradition and brandishing ignorance (whether feigned or not) and inaccuracy as a badge of honour is one of our society's less endearing features.
Nautical jargon, has a useful purpose and a proud history. You don't need to refer to the windows in your house a scuttles, but on a boat the correct and unambiguous term is usually the nautical one.

imho.

 

[Daydream believer]

Sailing is like sex? Is that because it costs you a lot of money to do it, you rarely do it properly, and yet you can't help coming back for more?

It can be free if you have the right level of charm

 

[Bru]

The modern obsession with rubbishing tradition and brandishing ignorance (whether feigned or not) and inaccuracy as a badge of honour is one of our society's less endearing features.
Nautical jargon, has a useful purpose and a proud history. You don't need to refer to the windows in your house a scuttles, but on a boat the correct and unambiguous term is usually the nautical one.

Wot he said too

 

[john_morris_uk]

"Can see how it would work racing with a novice crew but I think that is a selfish & stupid way of doing things. Would be far better if they were to learn what they were doing & why.
A novice is on the start of a long learning curve & I see no benefit to them by using the correct terms."

I agree. I wasn't suggesting it was a good thing to do, but recounting it as an amusing tale. I actually agree with you completely that learning and using the correct nautical terms is not only reasonable, but the sensible and safe way to do things. One doesn't have to be anal about it, but using the correct terms usually makes sense.

 

[Woodlouse]

Nope, counting pins is a recipe for cockups when things get put on the wrong pins or sometimes the pins themselves get shifted about in the rails. Pinrail diagrams for the ships exist, but their use is discouraged for this reason. Much better to learn distinguishing characteristics like "further up, further aft, further out", "clewlines and buntlines go through the leaderboards, each sail starts with a thicker clewline then a number of thinner buntlines", "topgallant and royal sheets go through lizards", "squaresail halyards have a block on deck", etc. Obviously many such rules only work on a particular ship, but it's still better than blindly counting "three from the left" or whatever.

Pete

Fraid I have to disagree. On a dark night in an emergency you often don't have the time or the ability to check the lead and run of ropes and so the only way to be sure of what you're doing is to ensure every line stays on its pin. I understand why caution would have to be used on a sail training ship with inexperienced crews who won't necessarily understand the importance of the practice but with experienced sailors I'd be a bit miffed if lines continued to change places.

 

[prv]

On a dark night in an emergency you often don't have the time or the ability to check the lead and run of ropes and so the only way to be sure of what you're doing is to ensure every line stays on its pin

I'm sure it depends on the type of vessel. When you have fifty pins along the side of the ship, you're going to be a lot slower counting to number thirtyseven than I am looking for the one that has a big tackle and a block on deck (I've arbitrarily decided that we're dropping the upper topsail yard in a hurry due to a sudden squall). You don't need to follow the whole run of the line, in most cases you can't as they go up through the tops in bunches, but in each case there is something about the lower end of the line that identifies it.

But different ships, different long splices. On a big gaffer I'd be expecting to look for the right pin.

Pete