How far would you go...

jointventureII

jointventureII

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...in a 23ft single engined boat?
My best friend and me plan to cross the channel in the coming summer. A while away yet I know.
The boat is an Orkney 23 with single 115hp 4 stroke. Potential routes are Jersey - Guernsey - Salcombe, Jersey - Alderney - Weymouth or Jersey - Alderney - Poole.
We are young but we're not stupid and am currently trying to find another boat to accompany us.
Safe range on the main tank is 100 miles, with a few spare cans totalling another 20 miles.
We also plan to borrow an outboard (9.9hp) and take the dinghy.
Theres a fair bit planning to do, and of course when the time comes the weather has to be perfect with a settled forecast.
I know there will be people that say this is idiotic, and that asking the forum for advice means in itself that we aren't prepared and shouldnt be doing this. I dont have any pieces of paper to say that im qualified, but am taking Powerboat 2 in January (i've been told this won't really teach me anything i don't already know).
Verdict?
 
keep your subscriptions up to the lifeboat service, why not pick the shortest cross channel route and coast hop the rest, mind you it can get pretty nasty anywhere in the channel if you get caught out, and with the British weather that can be at a moments notice at any time of year.
 
you have summarised most ofl the issues yourself so I am not going to play them back to you.

I have a single engined 25 ft boat and we ran direct back from St PP to Poole in August as well as another trip via Braye both ways. In company with another single engined 25 ft boat at all times.

Only things I would add are -
1. understand how the weather is looking to develop and have an alternate appropriate to the possible conditions. ie running from Poole one trip we found the sea unpleasant on the nose and switched to C'bourg which gave a much much better ride for everyone. Just past half way conditions eased and we were able to revert to Braye. If we had had to go through to C'bourg we were prepared. In a small power boat 15 degrees can make a huge difference.
2. be prepared to turn back - ploughing on isn't worth it.
3. don't try and outrun/stay ahead of the weather (or tides); you don't want to be time committed.
4. break up the journey for the crews sake rather than the boats - if you plan to refuel at Braye then go ashore for breakfast/lunch.
 
Coast hopping round to the shortest point is a bit far for us (we cant afford that much in petrol!) and also I have no idea what the entrances to harbours round there look like, whereas i've seen the approaches (from a boat) to Poole and Weymouth before. We do have a 24m Radar which I've got the basics of, and can navigate from if land appears.
Yeah a fuel stop in Braye is the plan, we're considering staying a night there tho this is all weather/ tide dependant. Neither of us have entered Braye before and we're more than likely going to try it first as a seperate trip to familiarise ourselves with the setup there (where the fuel berth is, where we can leave the boat etc). The boat is kept at St Catherines so its about 35nm up to Braye
 
In a 21ft single 4.3 petrol cuddy sports boat I once did, Hamble, Poole, Alderney, Guernsey, Cherbourg, Cowes, Hamble in a week. I did however do it in the company of other boats and had all the safety kit + several jerries of spare petrol. Route planning was essential and you have to wait for the weather (we were V.Lucky).

We had handheld GPS but plotted on charts just in case. It is not a trip to be taken lightly but yes it is possible. Try building up experience of less substantial crossings first (or trips out of the sight of land in the busiest shipping lanes in the world).

Only go if you feel confident, have meticulously planned and are in company. Oh yeah ensure you join RNLI offshore as good protocol. Remember if you break down, get a rope/net wrapped around the prop etc. you are on your own so know the basics. From experience there is nothing like sitting in the middle of the channel whilst you go over the side with a knife to clear a rope off the prop with a large tanker bearing down on you.

Not trying to put you off, it is possible and if you are up to it then it is an adventure!

Let us know how you get on


Paul
 
Go for it, but as others have said- Go in the company of other boats.

There isn't a fuel berth in Braye. You have to get it from local garage and they will deliver it to harbour wall in jerrycans and lower it down on rope (for a fee of course)
 
You need to be sure you have charts and pilot books, study them, then you do know ahrbour entrances as bolt holes If you need to change course. Luckily there all fairly easy. I presume you have GPS and spare batteries.?? Dont get the Alderney Races wrong if going to Bray and take a wide arc into the entrance. I'd go for Salcolmbe or Weymouth. Both about 65 miles.
 
We've got charts for the channel islands, and a chart of the approaches to the CI's. When we've decided where to go (Salcombe, Weymouth or Poole) then we'll look into the charts for these areas.
Thanks Col for the Alderney info.
There was one other thing - crossing the shipping lanes. Do you need any sort of clearance, i.e. call the coastguard and get permission or is it literally just go for it and keep an eye out?
Also do you have to cross perpendicular to the lanes to minimise time spend in the path of large ships?
 
I used to bring over to Jersey new fairline 21 sprints on there own bottom, with spare fuel in cans. just have to get the right weather,
good fun it was, the fuel bills were paid by someone else.
 
I do not understand this need to subscribe to RNLI offshore prior to a channel crossing, am I missing something?
 
Hi

Obviously I don’t know anything about your level of experience / confidence, so apologies if this reply errs on the side of stating the obvious! And of course everything is IMHO and if you do end up floating around the English channel in a F9……..heading towards America, please don’t blame me!

I will start with saying that I do not think there is any intrinsic reason why the trip is not feasible on your boat and at the risk of getting slated here I would also say no need to travel in convoy – but also no reason not to. And you seem to be sensible enough to be asking yourself the right questions – which is IMHO always a good start.

I would assume with you being based at St Catherine’s that you have popped across to France a few times (and possibly even the Ecrehous?) – IMHO if your engine breaks down half way to France with the weather deteriorating you would probably wish you were in the middle of the English Channel!, I would make sure that you are comfortable that your main engine is reliable (as I am sure you have anyway – and can fix anything which commonly goes wrong with an outboard) and that you KNOW what your fuel consumption is, and is not just based on a guesstimate and that you plan to arrive with plenty of fuel in reserve.

Your biggest problem will be fatigue, especially in a smaller boat over long distances. As the Orkney 23 has a wheel shelter (If I have googled the right boat and it is the same boats I have seen around) this will be a big boon (I certainly would not want to try this length of trip in an open boat – even if the boat was capable of it) – but you will certainly be tired at the end of the trip, even if things go well – both from the physical bouncing around but also equally importantly from the mental tiredness of stress, particularly unfortunate as you will be arriving in the UK in a strange port when you will need your wits around you, rather than “coming home” which you can probably do in your sleep!

An ability to make hot drinks and even some hot food would be a real boon – and of course make sure you can wrap up warm and dry and also have a change of clothes………just in case. I would also find a speed which is comfortable for you, it may or may not be slower than you normally travel – over the many hours it will make a difference, especially as I assume you do not have an autopilot. (I am also assuming that for this reason that you will have at least 1 other person aboard who can at least follow a compass (or GPS course) even if they don’t know much else. I would want two other people, for comfort reasons. Sitting behind a wheel and concentrating over many hours IS very tiring.

IMHO the biggest thing that experience can give you is the ability to “not panic” or not to over worry if things do go wrong (ie knowing when you SHOULD be scared!) and there is nothing anyone can teach you, it’s gotta be learn’t – but I would start off imagining the worst!…….. and figuring out how you would cope. Of course whatever happens WILL be different to your back up plans, but that is just the way these things are! I am guessing that you may be a bit of a fisherman with a boat like that, so you probably already have plenty of experience of sitting around in a boat which is stopped in the water, so won’t automatically be fazed by this and how the boats behaviour changes and have done this in various weather conditions.

I would also ensure that you could fuel your spare engine direct from your main tanks and with your extra fuel cans I would make sure you could refuel safely, whatever the weather – I would try your refuelling method out before hand (it’s easier to come ashore for a bigger funnel at B & Q when you are near St Catherine’s than in the English Channel) and of course don’t leave refuelling till you are running on air!

I think your idea to have a run up to Alderney and back is a good idea – afterwards you may even decide that the “hop across the channel” is not worth the effort – nothing wrong with a change of plan.

Finally I would also suggest that you have a plan of what to do if the weather turns on you, so that you are happy to leave the boat in England or Alderney and fly / get the condor back until the next week (or even later) so you do not feel that you “have” to try and come back. It has been many years since I was up the Alderney race, but it can be a scary place even at the best of times.

I have not gone into what safety equipment – the post is long enough already!
 
Make sure you have charts for all eventualities. You dont need them in big scale as the pilot books, or an Almanac will show you the habour enterances. You dont need to tell anyone, but your supposed to cross the shipping lanes at right angles. Dont tell anyone that I told you this. But your speed should be fast enough not to worry to much about this. Obviously if there is good visability, just change course when you see a ship and cross well in front of it, or if in any doubt behind. Turn round or stop if Necessary, there faster than you think. You will be close to 90 deg in any case. Dont try to out run the ships, or play chicken whatever you do, most times they are on auto pilot with no look out. Dont worry about it to much, you can usually just stop a couple of hundred yards off and let them pass. Watch for the wash though.
 
As I said just good protocol in that if everyone who ventures off shore subscribes then the RNLI will have enough cash to keep operating, and one day we may need them! Of course this is my opinion. No other reason than that.

Cheers

Paul
 
Yes. It feels a long lonely journey in a P35, engine notes changing all the time, only to find out it was cos of wind shift. Sea appearing to get rougher, then calming down. (hopefully)

Whats the cruising speed of this boat anyway??
 
Wouldn't disagree with anything said so far, but would add one point.

Withh 115hp you're obviously going to achieve high speeds in decent weather. But, assuming a worst case, say you've done 50 miles from Salcombe towards Alderney in a gently rising South Easterly. At the point that it becomes F6 and you're having to slow down, and the tide is just about to turn (roughly) against the wind, making this more rough, your main engine stops, irrevocably. Is 10hp enough? Probably not. And what if discretion being the better part says turn back to Salcombe. Have you enough fuel?

20hp would be my preferred backstop, but that's a bit of a sod to borrow/mount.

With decent forecasts you should be fine. And if you want a top forecast, ask here, people will get you one.

I'm just used to that area in sailybotes, and if ever it could go pear-shaped, that's where it did it. Mostly.

Just remembering doing it in a perfect forecast (F3 cyclonic) from Plymouth to Guernsey in a 42 twin 325hps singlehanded. Last bit down the outside of Guernsey was a bit of a 'hope the lifeboat chaps aren't in the pub' moment. Solid water breaking over the rail onto glass side windows. Gulp.
 
We've all been there, but he's only looking for a 3/4 hour window, I'm guessing 20 knot's plus?? Thats why I'm suggesting Salcolmbe/ Weymouth. If the 100 mile range is right, I'd want to be nearer half this, as fuel useage will increase as weather deteriates, if it does. I'd sujest he gives the coast guards a safety message and tell some on on shore ETA. They ring CG if not on time. Else CG will not look into it. I'll go more into this if he dont understand.
 
Agreed. Get the spare fuel into the main tank as soon as it will fit, not when you're getting low.

But can't agree on relying on CG or reporting. OK as backup but won't provide positive buoyancy.
 
Im studying meteorology at the moment on my course and to be honest, wouldnt venture out if the winds weren't from the prevailing southwest, as this can lead to uncertainty in forecasting and is a rare wind in the summer. But still, she burns 1.15 litres / mile at 4200rpm producing about 19 knots with all the mentioned gear aboard and a full tank.
Im doing this purely to gain experience. Its my firm belief that you can never progress unless you push your boundaries (within reason). When me and my dad first started boating we didnt venture past the breakwater but as time pases and confidence grows we progressed.
Thanks to all for advice
 
Yes been to the Ecrehous many many times! What a location, and yes the enterance to Carteret can be hideous, even in relatively light winds. Dodging the pot markers and the huge lengths of unleaded rope is a strain!
The boat is very stable for its length but doesnt like short sharp chop on the bow (as is the case with most boats i have come across). She has a wheelhouse and consumes about 1.15 litres / mile at 19knots fully laden.
We only plan to have 2 aboard, we are both competent and can both use all the electronics as well as navigate on paper charts.
I've taken her to herm and sark before and to overcome boredom (for a while anyway) have taken a portable CD player. I realise that these trips are only around an hour but again with 2 aboard i think we will cope. As mentioned it is all to gain experience - to take the yachtmaster a requirement is 5 passages over 60nm.
I'll keep you informed as to what goes on!
 
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