How easy is it to handle a big single engined boat?

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I was over at the Dusseldorf boat show earlier in the week admiring Nordhavn and Selene trawler type displacement boats. It's easy to imagine yourself plodding off into the sunset on an extended cruise in one of these. They are invariably single engined which makes sense for optimum economy but what are these things like to handle in a tight marina with just your missus handling fenders and lines? The Nordhavns have a lot of hull in the water but they also have huge topsides and superstructure which means they also have a huge amount of windage.
I know most of them have a big rudder with bow thruster and sternthruster but how easy or difficult is it to turn one of these big single engined boats in a tight fairway and back into a berth with a stiff cross wind blowing or a tide running? These things are heavy and built like the proverbial brick outhouse so I imagine you can do a lot of damage if you cock it up
 
Understanding the vessels transverse thrust when going astern helps a fair bit, especially if the thrust favours the side with the wheelhouse door.
Short bursts of ahead (wheel hard over) and astern can get you around in most tight situations.
You have to really watch getting pegged sideways into a corner though......
 
Turning circle

Having sailed/motored this boat a few years ago in some tight spots, you need some forward planning and to make use of prop walk, ropes and caution but it is a little scary.

http://www.maritimeheritageeast.org.uk/archive/city-of-edinboro-2/image/maxi How do you get the image in the thread?

One big prop and no thrusters great fun.

Manouvreing sailing yachts up to 70' with one small prop and not much hp when compared to the weight, can be challanging. Use of warps is used much more to help a manouvre than with a twin screw boat with thrusters. You also tend to do things much more slowly and step by step. Even though a yacht has a keel to help reduce wind induced drift, they are also unbalanced in that the bow will always blow off as the boat pivots around the keel with the rig adding a lot of windage.

I think they would be no more difficult than many larger yachts that I've sailed, but you're right the potential for damage increases asa the square of the length or displacement.
 
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I have a good friend with a Linssen single engined steel motorboat of about 42 - 43 feet. He had bow and stern thrusters fitted during build which utilise a hand held remote (radio) control box. This makes mooring a synch, very impressive to see the boat 'crabbing into a berth'. With careful use of engine (single 145hp) and bowthruster/sternthruster it is very manouverable, BUT I think bow/sternthrusters are the essential part of a package like this
 
Deleted User said:
They are invariably single engined which makes sense for optimum economy but what are these things like to handle in a tight marina with just your missus handling fenders and lines?
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Actually, if you're interested in fuel efficiency at displacement speed, nowadays there are interesting semi-displacement alternatives which are as economic as a trawler when cruising at D speed, whilst giving the option of much faster passages if and when needed.
And since these ones are invariably twin engine boats, also the maneuverability is better.
That said, the trick is all in having thrusters with adequate power. And hydraulic ones of course, which don't melt if used continuously.
 
I have a boat with single engine & shaft drive but with a bow thruster, unfortunately its not anything like as large as a beautiful Nordhavn! But as most have mentioned prop walk you need to use to your advantage... that said a blip of hard astern pulls me off to starboard...and at Mercury we berth port hand to.... that's good planning for you. :rolleyes: However remember with a semi displacement hull that small keel edge does keep the boat on a nice straight course unlike a planning hull, and with no flybridge we have little windage (unlike you would experience with a Nordhavn!), so gentle and slow mooring is what I do... I have mastered the quiet drifting into a mooring rather than a rushed landing. But forward planing and knowing that you cannot turn within your own boat length does mean slow but sure manoeuvring is required in a tight marina, I suppose 30 years of sailing has prepared me for single engined boat handling!
 
MapisM said:
Actually, if you're interested in fuel efficiency at displacement speed, nowadays there are interesting semi-displacement alternatives which are as economic as a trawler when cruising at D speed, whilst giving the option of much faster passages if and when needed.
And since these ones are invariably twin engine boats, also the maneuverability is better.
That said, the trick is all in having thrusters with adequate power. And hydraulic ones of course, which don't melt if used continuously.
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Yes you're right but it was interesting to compare the hulls of a Fleming 65 and a Nordhavn 47 at the Show. The Fleming has a relatively modest V hard chine design which is clearly designed to provide lift even though it has a substantial keel. The Nordhavn has a deep round bilge design, also with a big keel, but there is much more hull in the water than the Fleming. Also, I believe that the Nordhavn is considerably heavier (N55 displaces 52t whereas F55 displaces about 30t).
What I'm trying to say that if your intention is to cruise at displacement speed, the Nordhavn is probably going to be more seakindly and, ultimately, has better stability than the Fleming. Yes, the Fleming does have the ability to go faster but, how often are you going to use that speed, particularly as the fuel consumption rises dramatically at semi-d speeds? So, if you're going to cruise your boat at displacement speed for 99% of the time, does it not make sense to get the best tool for the job?
 
Deleted User said:
I was over at the Dusseldorf boat show earlier in the week admiring Nordhavn and Selene trawler type displacement boats. It's easy to imagine yourself plodding off into the sunset on an extended cruise in one of these. They are invariably single engined which makes sense for optimum economy but what are these things like to handle in a tight marina with just your missus handling fenders and lines? The Nordhavns have a lot of hull in the water but they also have huge topsides and superstructure which means they also have a huge amount of windage.
I know most of them have a big rudder with bow thruster and sternthruster but how easy or difficult is it to turn one of these big single engined boats in a tight fairway and back into a berth with a stiff cross wind blowing or a tide running? These things are heavy and built like the proverbial brick outhouse so I imagine you can do a lot of damage if you cock it up
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These are interesting vessels and I have been looking too - the appeal of long distance cruising without stopping for fuel has merit.

Problem is the Nordhavn smaller boats appear to me to be slightly unpowered - I heard a story in the summer of one taking ages to get past Hurst Pt as he got the tides a bit wrong.... I understand there will shortly be a smaller Bandido which I like a lot as built like a brick outhouse and hydraulic thrusters. I have the fuel curves etc for the 75 and with 'only' 380hp the speed/consumption is very impressive indeed and they reckon it will do 9knots in virtually any Wx
 
mjf said:
These are interesting vessels and I have been looking too - the appeal of long distance cruising without stopping for fuel has merit.

Problem is the Nordhavn smaller boats appear to me to be slightly unpowered - I heard a story in the summer of one taking ages to get past Hurst Pt as he got the tides a bit wrong.... I understand there will shortly be a smaller Bandido which I like a lot as built like a brick outhouse and hydraulic thrusters. I have the fuel curves etc for the 75 and with 'only' 380hp the speed/consumption is very impressive indeed and they reckon it will do 9knots in virtually any Wx
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Yup, a salesman at the Show told us there will be a Bandido 56 but I think Bandido prices are mega bucks so I would expect the 56 to cost more than the equivalent Nordhavn.
Interesting point about the smaller Nordhavns. Obviously, the smaller they are the lower will be their max hull speeds so I guess a Nordhavn 40 would struggle to get past Hurst against a spring tide. I don't think they are underpowered as such just limited by their waterline lengths. But I suppose cruising a displacement motor boat takes a bit more planning than a planing boat in terms of aiming to go with the tide rather than fighting it
 
Mike, strangely I found handling a 50ft single with bow thruster just as easy to manage as twin. Different technique, barn door sized rudder very effective, but bow thruster essential. I found mooring single handed no problem even on windy days. Boats like Nordhavn, etc, have decent keels and a lot under the water, so there is inertia despite the windage topsides. You get used to it. Single handing a single with bowthruster is very manageable, and with two no problem. Our previous marina was very tight with only 6ft of extra space for turning between the two rows of fingers (ie approx 56ft). Larger vessels like Nordhavn will also have stern thrusters making it easy.
 
Deleted User said:
Yup, a salesman at the Show told us there will be a Bandido 56 but I think Bandido prices are mega bucks so I would expect the 56 to cost more than the equivalent Nordhavn.
Interesting point about the smaller Nordhavns. Obviously, the smaller they are the lower will be their max hull speeds so I guess a Nordhavn 40 would struggle to get past Hurst against a spring tide. I don't think they are underpowered as such just limited by their waterline lengths. But I suppose cruising a displacement motor boat takes a bit more planning than a planing boat in terms of aiming to go with the tide rather than fighting it
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Yep the price issue is the downside.

Euro prices for a craft built in the far east.......That's taking the pi** IMHO
 
I took a friends boat, a Nordhavn 47 from Madeira to the Clyde 3 years ago. An amazing boat, we got a bit of weather in Biscay but she was rock solid. To be honest though as the journey wore on the lack of speed got to me. Berthing was fine with the bow and stern thrusters, the beauty of A Hordhavn is you dont have to pull in for fuel too often!

Interestingly I have also been on a similar size Fleming and she was a very different sea boat, by no means not good just the Nordhavn is essentially a ship!

Ryan
 
I've owned a trawler yacht (Diesel Duck - www.dieselducks.com ) for a couple of years now, we've about 2000 Nm in that time and have found no problems at all in entering marinas and stern berthing in the Med. It's just another technique to get used too.
We have a bow thruster but the trick is to use it as little as possible so you get used to handling the boat and if it's tricky the bow thruster is an extra, if you follow my drift.
Trawlers like the Nordhavn, tend to be deep in the water and are supprisingly unaffected by the wind, current is different but can normally be anticipated (or used).
As for fuel consumption and speed - you get what you pay for - If you can accept sailing boat speeds, then filling the tanks once every 3000 NM is a no-brainer.
 
MVDestiny said:
I've owned a trawler yacht (Diesel Duck - www.dieselducks.com ) for a couple of years now, we've about 2000 Nm in that time and have found no problems at all in entering marinas and stern berthing in the Med. It's just another technique to get used too.
We have a bow thruster but the trick is to use it as little as possible so you get used to handling the boat and if it's tricky the bow thruster is an extra, if you follow my drift.
Trawlers like the Nordhavn, tend to be deep in the water and are supprisingly unaffected by the wind, current is different but can normally be anticipated (or used).
As for fuel consumption and speed - you get what you pay for - If you can accept sailing boat speeds, then filling the tanks once every 3000 NM is a no-brainer.
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Totally agree......I never seem to have enough hands to use the thruster too much anyway.
From what I have seen and heard of Nordhavn owners, rushing about doesn't seem to be on their agenda. Their boats appear to be specifically chosen as representing a lifestyle, thinking that if they were to change boats, it would be either a larger or smaller version of what they already have.
They certainly have changed my thinking on Asian built vessels.
 
Well, you had all the sensible and well considered answers, now for the flip side.
Aim for something flimsy and set your bow hard against it, possible a Corniche or Targa. Set your helm to hard a port or starboard, dependant on which way you want to go, and simple put engine half ahead until you face the way you want.

Then just back off from the debris and off you go. If you're really worried about your paint, buy some touch-up first!

Works every time with trawlers!
 
Cliveshep said:
Well, you had all the sensible and well considered answers, now for the flip side.
Aim for something flimsy and set your bow hard against it, possible a Corniche or Targa. Set your helm to hard a port or starboard, dependant on which way you want to go, and simple put engine half ahead until you face the way you want.

Then just back off from the debris and off you go. If you're really worried about your paint, buy some touch-up first!

Works every time with trawlers!
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You have had your boat in a commercial harbour then Clive.......:(
 
AndieMac said:
You have had your boat in a commercial harbour then Clive.......:(
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S.O.P

But, it's a lot easier with a mobo than with a raggie. With a raggie there's always the risk of sticking the bowsprit through a porthole by mistake and doing your own boat a bit of mischief! Then you've got no where to hang the laundry!
 
Cliveshep said:
S.O.P

But, it's a lot easier with a mobo than with a raggie. With a raggie there's always the risk of sticking the bowsprit through a porthole by mistake and doing your own boat a bit of mischief! Then you've got no where to hang the laundry!
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Come to think of it.....they do have a lot of over-hang.......they truely are a versitile craft...;)

I wish you would be serious.......:D
 
Deleted User said:
if you're going to cruise your boat at displacement speed for 99% of the time, does it not make sense to get the best tool for the job?
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Tricky question, this one. I mean, the answer is yes, of course.
But the point is, what's really the job for which Nordhavn and the likes are the best tool?
It's not simply cruising at D speed. It's cruising at D speed for very long passages: those measured in days, not hours.
For daily cruises, there isn't really a big difference, neither in terms of consumption nor in terms of comfort, between a D and a SD boat. If used both at D speed, and if both stabilised. Mind, if not stabilised, the rolling is even worse in the D boat. As it is at anchor, btw.

That aside, I'm not sure that you'd really use your boat at D speed 99% of the time, if the possibility to cruise faster is there. 80 to 90% maybe, but not 99. Again, unless crossing oceans most of the time.

PS: just as my 2 cents of experience after a decade of full D trawler, surely there was a 10% or so of time where I would have used a higher speed if I had the option. And on balance, the higher consumption wouldn't have been a big concern on such a small share of the total use.
 
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