How do you view MBY boat tests?

[ari]

There's been an interesting discussion develop about magazine boat tests HERE which a couple of IPC staffers (past and present) have contributed to.

Unfortunately due to the nature of the board the discussion has slipped out of sight a couple of pages back.

But with all due respect to IPC and genuinely without wanting to be antagonistic (I'm obviously well aware that they kindly host these boards) I am genuinely interested to know how people see MBY reports? Basically whether they're considered a serious hard hitting no punches pulled boat review to be taken seriously, or whether they're just a bit of puff.

I'm not going to air my own views here in this initial post (although they are in the thread referred to) because I'd like to know what others think?

I'd also add that I've been a regular purchaser and reader of MBY for probably 15 years and I do like the mag a lot, I'm just interested in peoples thoughts about the big boat reviews really.

 

[sarabande]

PBO gets a bunch of ordinary sailing people together from time to time to test ordinary kit such as pumps, binos, etc.

What if MBM took along some experienced mobo owners, and allowed them to comment (anonymously ?) in the article.

I volunteer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[tcm]

um, i see the point of your post. But if you remember a fair way back...there most definitely *have* been some very hardhitting MBY reviews. One frinstance was so strong that (it is said) they caused near-riot on the shopfloor, legals threatened against journalist personally and all very scary, plenty of other examples too. So mby go up to a reasonable limit, imho,and have tested that limit, too.

However, given that the volumes are so small in boating, and that the press hence hencedon't have such sway as in motoring mags, they wd be foolsih to fill three pages with lists of things that could be better if the manufacturer spent more time and earned less money by lengthening delivry times and hiring only the most pernickety staff and etc etc...and so for the next new model mby gets less access and praps Il Boatorri mag gets test boat and mby gets put off until other tests published...

Sepretly, since the unspoken comparison is with car reviews, it is fact that actually clarkson frexample has nowhere near the car knowledge that mby journos have about boat/yot design. Clarkson has ot much idea if any about mech engineering, he';s just a nice reaity-ish loafish presenter. Yet imho clarkson has too much power, and some of his views are just plain wrong or silly - the glorifying of laddish speed encourages idiot road rallies for example,and TG magazine carries their advertising. The hoho vauxhall tests cost sales and jobs - and that from public service broadcasting for crissakes. The french make some yawn dull cars but their public service broadcasting doesn't rip into them anywhere near like that. Yes, clarkson is personable enough in amateurish way and in an otherwise fairly talentless tv landscape. But relative to purely commercial MBY with 25,000 ish readers, TG has almost unlimited funds and only the genral desire for reasonable viewing figures. Slamming products fortheir failures attracts more viewers who enjoy the entertainment, in some leery laddish but generally not-expert and not-engineering modern style where thoughtfulness orintelligenceis is "nerdy" - "poofs drive porsches" etc. BBC especially has no major commercial advertising - just a desire to get viewers. It may seem sharp and cutting - but really, it isn't. You find some aspect you understand, rip into that and suddenly it seems very in depth. Dumbing down, again.

 

[ari]

I think you're quite right about Clarkson. However if you pick up Car Magazine for instance you'll find no Clarkson but plenty of fair unbiased accurate reporting and no fear of telling it how it is, good or bad.

 

[tcm]

But ...higher volumes of cars and carmags, the lower cost of cars, the broader scope of buyers ... means surely a different landscape twixt car and boat?

The mags, manufacturers and buyers are all much less numerous in boating.

Sepretly of couse, yep, utterly free and non-uk-biased uk press is free to say anything it likes hurrah. Meanwhile, er no uk car manufacturing or uk motorbike manufacturing, thanks very much but we enjoyed the mags that slagged them all off, har har. I reckon if one had enough money (like bbc?) and/or enough foreign advertisers who wd glefully help out, you might be able to finish off quite a few fledgling uk car/boat manufacturing companies esp if a bit of recession?...

 

[epervier]

can't vote in this, 'cause I don't buy, therefore, read the mag.
but would like to be able to see the result.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well, I think the survey results say it all. MBM/MBY boat tests are nothing of the sort. Basically, they are coffee table type advertorials designed not to offend the advertisers and not in any way comparable to the no punches pulled road tests published by the serious car magazines. As has been said before, specialist magazines have neither the circulation nor the range of advertisers to be able to afford to offend one or other

 

[ari]

[ QUOTE ]
But ...higher volumes of cars and carmags, the lower cost of cars, the broader scope of buyers ... means surely a different landscape twixt car and boat?

The mags, manufacturers and buyers are all much less numerous in boating.

[/ QUOTE ]

A review is a review surely, whether it's of a £300 television or a £20M plane, the point is to allow the reader to glean a fair and accurate apprasal of what the product is about isn't it?

[ QUOTE ]
Sepretly of couse, yep, utterly free and non-uk-biased uk press is free to say anything it likes hurrah. Meanwhile, er no uk car manufacturing or uk motorbike manufacturing, thanks very much but we enjoyed the mags that slagged them all off, har har. I reckon if one had enough money (like bbc?) and/or enough foreign advertisers who wd glefully help out, you might be able to finish off quite a few fledgling uk car/boat manufacturing companies esp if a bit of recession?...

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think Rover (for example) went to the wall cos the car reviews weren't terribly good rather than cos the cars weren't very good and in fact Autocar etc should really have raved about Rovers instead cos then everyone would have bought them even if they were a bit rubbish compared to what else was out there and then everything would have been hunky dory?

If you'd bought a Cityrover thing instead of a far superior Fiat Panda for example on the say so of Autocar would you have thought "hey ho, I don't mind having a crap car really, cos at least the manufacturers weren't upset by a review that said so"? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[1yppah]

Completely disagree, have you ever read a US mag?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

What, you think the tests in MBM/MBY are a shining beacon of fearless unbiased tell it like it is reporting? I think you're in a very small majority there. Thats not to say I don't read and enjoy the test reports only that I don't take them seriously as an objective assessment of the product. I'll ask one question. Has anyone ever read a boat test report that concludes ' this boat is pants, don't buy it'. I've been subscribing to MBY/MBM for 17yrs and I've never read anything like that
Yes, I have read US boating magazines. They're not fit for toilet paper

 

[longjohnsilver]

[ QUOTE ]
They're not fit for toilet paper

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite agree, they're far too glossy and leave you with a multi colored arse /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[tcm]

unm, praps the problem started yonks ago. Some of the best uk car dsigners don't work for uk companies and haven't done so for ages. If you were ded brightand wanted to specialise in say engineering research or leading edge car design a uk manufactrer would not be your first choice.

And even further back, the notion of working in -ugh- industry was always a bit down at heel compared with being an accountant, much posher, somehow, in the uk.

In the uk, writing about engineering things is often actually better paid than doing the engineering things. The same doesn't apply abroad - many times in a german or french or italian engineering co the engineery designer types are un-oh top dogs calling the shots.

Nor does the same apply to UK in other sectors - being an accountant is not too hard, flunk 1st year eng. heyho off to the accounting dept - and yet accountants generaly lots bettr paid, and writing about accounting less so.

Arguably, countries might actually be good at things where internally, the population really feels they are world class - and hence the best youngsters are also attractd to those areas as well. Financial services city stuf frinstance, nobody much goes oh gawd he works in the City typical thicko hence it ends up world class.

 

[benjenbav]

I'm racking my brains to see if I can't think of someone with an engineering degree who became an accountant....Did quite well for himself. Squaddie in Antibes etc

 

[epervier]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They're not fit for toilet paper

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite agree, they're far too glossy and leave you with a multi colored arse /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely right!/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

beentheredonethat.com /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[tcm]

it didn't say"this boat is pants", but there def was one that said something along the lines of firing the designer who authorised high gloss deck or suchlike. Or using the savings in staff costs sacked due to rubbish foredeck grp to make other improvements. A while back, but it was there...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yep, you're right, my mistake. I also forgot about the test in which they savaged the toilet roll holder design. Hard hitting investigative journo stuff, it was
Of course, Marsh can't really afford to rubbish anyone else's designs in his boat tests because most of his own stuff is shite and his designer mates would'nt talk to him at the YBDSA christmas do

 

[tcm]

glerk, erm rightyho!....

 

[ari]

[ QUOTE ]
it didn't say"this boat is pants", but there def was one that said something along the lines of firing the designer who authorised high gloss deck or suchlike. Or using the savings in staff costs sacked due to rubbish foredeck grp to make other improvements. A while back, but it was there...

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember that one vividly, mainly because it was the one single honest boat test ever. It was of a Sealine S41 I think (deffo a Sealine sportscruiser thingy anyway). I remember being delighted at a proper honest boat test at last.

The interesting thing is that no Sealine boat test since has even touched on any of the points raised in that test, so presumably the company took heed of the test and raised their game significantly in which case it's all good and very positive for the British Marine Industry.

Or the magazine chaps got told that they wouldn't be allowed to come and play again unless they promised never never never to write horrible nasty things ever again.

I'm sure it's the former though... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Incidentally I do sympathise with the mags being scared of not being allowed any more boats to test, but ever resourceful I do have a solution.

What they ought to do when a manufacturer launches a new boat is say to them "right chaps, we'd like to test that please for our interested and informed readers who by the way are also your customers, could we have one please? We will be printing the test in 3 months, regardless".

Then if the manufacturer refuses they ought to print the test anyway but with blank pages except for big text saying "we asked Company XYZ for their new Fandango 40 to test, but they refused to let us near it. We suggest you draw your own conclusions about their confidence in their boat to stand up to close scrutiny".

Doubt many manufacturers would risk that. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Hugo_Andreae]

I don't usually comment on these threads for the simple reason that anything I say tends be ingored by the conspiracy theorists because I work for IPC. However, having worked for both a car magazine (Autocar), a newspaper (The Express for my sins) and both MBM and MBY I have a pretty good overview of the whole car/boat review issue.

The bottom line is that when David Marsh reviews a boat he does it far more thoroughly and with far greater objectivity than any car reviewer I have ever worked with. The fact that he tends to use less effusive language and less subjective comment either to praise or criticise a boat does not make it any less valid. This may occasionally mean it is less entertaining or opinionated than a comparable car review from TG, Car or Autocar but it will be every bit as truthful and arguably more accurate.

People do not buy boats for the same reasons that they buy cars and we need to reflect that in the way we write about them. To a large extent the boat you choose depends on how you use it and the priorities you place on various aspects of it.

Take the 62ft group test we've just done. It would have been easy for Dave to impose his own personal set of priorities on each of the boats and come up with his personal first, second, third and fourth placed boats but whether this would have been a) useful to readers and b) fair to the manufacturers concerned is debatable.

Is the Fairline a better boat than the Azimut because it handles more sharply or is the Azimut better than the Fairline because it's got a more stylish enclosed saloon? It depends entirely on your viewpoint as a buyer. All we can do is point out the areas in which one boat scores over another, criticise things which are not up to scratch and praise things which are particularly good. I believe we do this pretty well already. That said I'm always ready to listen to any suggestions on how our boat reports could be improved.

Hugo

 

[thailand69]

[ QUOTE ]
That said I'm always ready to listen to any suggestions on how our boat reports could be improved.

Hugo

[/ QUOTE ]

1. How many Bimbos can be fitted on the foredeck?

2. Is the Flybridge high enough so no one can notice the owner's bald patch?

3. Does it say "St Tropez" even when moored in "Grimsby"?

4. On scale of 1-10, how high does it rate on the "Looks like a floating Caravan" index?

5. Are the windows tinted sufficiently so that the Captain can never see sailing boats?

6. If moored in St Tropez WILL the foredeck attract Bimbos on the foredeck?..........no matter what the Captain looks like.