tcm
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hum, the braided lines will all be a bit (or a lot) snatchy/jerking
How do you tie yours...
- Thread starter onesea
- Start date
Spyro
Well-Known Member
Or maybe just tidying up the loose end?
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
I am a imperfect sailor.
(as most who know me will readily attest to.)
So I will not be offering any critique of others foibles.
(as most who know me will readily attest to.)
So I will not be offering any critique of others foibles.
Danny Jo
Well-Known Member
On own finger: spliced loop through centre of cleat and back over top.
When out and about: depends on how thirsty we are, but aim for considerate use of cleats, as here:
Preferably not like this:
When out and about: depends on how thirsty we are, but aim for considerate use of cleats, as here:
Preferably not like this:
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LadyInBed
Well-Known Member
I don't understand why people leave a coil of rope on the pontoon, all be it neatly coiled.
I like my spare onboard so I can easily adjust them.
I like my spare onboard so I can easily adjust them.
prv
Well-Known Member
Because they tied off one end on the boat, then stepped ashore with the other. Then they made fast on the pontoon, and find they're holding all the spare warp, so they coil it up and leave it there.
I sometimes do the same if things are simple (individual finger berths, for example). I know in theory the spare warp should be on board, but often it doesn't really matter.
Pete
Nikia
Well-Known Member
On own finger: spliced loop through centre of cleat and back over top.
When out and about: depends on how thirsty we are, but aim for considerate use of cleats, as here:
Preferably not like this:
I never tie a bowline through a cleat, (top pic ), as it cannot be undone under load.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
When I turned up for my Yachmaster prep course 25 years ago we found the boat tied up in all sorts of ways and the instructor asked for our comments. There were variations of most of the illustrated methods, together with bits of line tied together to make up longer lines etc etc. He'd done it on purpose to tell us NEVER to tie the boat up in such a slipshod and unseamanlike way!
My theory is that the trouble with pontoon berths is that they are too easy to get into bad habits with. Because the pontoon rises and falls with the boat you never have to worry about tending to lines and this leads people to develop habits that are completely contrary to good seamanship.
For what its worth, my view on the basic rules are:
A separate line for each job if at all possible.
Tie proper knots if you are going to stay. The cleats are there for making off to when you come alongside. They have holes through them so you can tie a line to them. Lots of foreign pontoons and 'cats' don't have cleats; they MAKE you tie your lines off.
Bowlines are for bollards. They can't be undone under load and therefore shouldn't be put through cleats.
Round turn and two half hitches can always be undone under load - its a much better knot for a mooring line.
Don't leave lines on the pontoon. Its rude and its a trip hazard.
All in my humble opinion of course, but I believe they make sense.
I abhor line looped through and lead back on board unless its for the very briefest of stays. You are wearing away at the centre of the line and you will be buying a new mooring line before long.
PS What's wrong with Picture 4? A splice onto a thimble with a shackle moused to the cleat seems a good way of having a permanent line rigged on a pontoon. I know that the shackle and thimble are a bit rusty but it only looks like surface rust and I doubt that their integrity and strength is challenged too much.
My theory is that the trouble with pontoon berths is that they are too easy to get into bad habits with. Because the pontoon rises and falls with the boat you never have to worry about tending to lines and this leads people to develop habits that are completely contrary to good seamanship.
For what its worth, my view on the basic rules are:
A separate line for each job if at all possible.
Tie proper knots if you are going to stay. The cleats are there for making off to when you come alongside. They have holes through them so you can tie a line to them. Lots of foreign pontoons and 'cats' don't have cleats; they MAKE you tie your lines off.
Bowlines are for bollards. They can't be undone under load and therefore shouldn't be put through cleats.
Round turn and two half hitches can always be undone under load - its a much better knot for a mooring line.
Don't leave lines on the pontoon. Its rude and its a trip hazard.
All in my humble opinion of course, but I believe they make sense.
I abhor line looped through and lead back on board unless its for the very briefest of stays. You are wearing away at the centre of the line and you will be buying a new mooring line before long.
PS What's wrong with Picture 4? A splice onto a thimble with a shackle moused to the cleat seems a good way of having a permanent line rigged on a pontoon. I know that the shackle and thimble are a bit rusty but it only looks like surface rust and I doubt that their integrity and strength is challenged too much.
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
I am not the only one, who feels that way, remember one of them is mine...
I did not say I was perfect....
Looking at them, non of them are RYA i didnt even see a bowline.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Whenever I've had a marina berth (not often, I admit) I have always set up spliced lines with snubbers for my home berth. When visiting, the breast lines are slips, lassoed from on board, which I slacken once the bow, stern and springs are on. The main lines are all bowlines through the base of the cleat so others can use the cleats and I can get free without having to untie their mare's nests. A bowline is no problem if the line is made up on board and can be adjusted from there.
And if it's an area likely to be frequented by drunks/yobs the bowlines are long so they can't be untied from the shore.
The biggest problem is persuading 'helpers' not to put a figure 8 on my slip lines.
And if it's an area likely to be frequented by drunks/yobs the bowlines are long so they can't be untied from the shore.
The biggest problem is persuading 'helpers' not to put a figure 8 on my slip lines.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Perhaps that's because there isn't an "RYA approved method"? Why do people think that there is an 'RYA way' of doing things? When I examine (on behalf of the RYA) I am expected to assess whether its safe and seamanlike, and not whether it's some mythical 'approved method.'
Amulet
Well-Known Member
Somebody there hasn't been studying the teachings of the Cunliffe!
Fer chrisakes don't encourage him - Cunliffe is quite capable of being a patronising bigot without any goading.
prv
Well-Known Member
So why is a bowline ok for a bollard but not for a cleat?
I have no problem with bowlines around cleats assuming the other end is made off on a cleat on the boat. If you need to undo it, slack the line from on board first. Obviously a bowline at both ends of one line is asking for trouble!
On a busy berth where lots of people are sharing cleats, putting a round turn and two half-hitches round one leg of a cleat risks someone else applying a Picture 13 on top of it, and you need to undo their knitting to get at your knot. A bowline with a two-foot loop keeps your workings out of the bunfight on the cleat itself.
Pete
johnalison
Well-Known Member
If I came on your boat I would abide by your rules but we have used the same dock lines - 3ply poly - for thirteen years, which includes a three month cruise each year, and the lines show very little sign of wear in spite of looping the lines as often as not. Our chief reason for doing this is that they can be released from on board. I will probably change them soon because they squeak like mad.
Nikia
Well-Known Member
Slackening the line from onboard isn't helpful if you have a 12 ton boat being blown off by a fresh breeze, you then just have a boat further away from the pontoon! I love bowlines, but for that particular purpose IMHO a round turn and 2 half hitches is better..................incidentally, isn't it a shame no-one has come up with a sexier name for that knot!
onesea
Well-Known Member
John not arguing any which way on what you have said, what I would say is as examiner you might do one thing but as teacher (assuming you do) are you still this flexible? do your students walk away thinking your methods are the only way?
If any one is curious I am No 7
Braided because they are my old Jib sheets and to be honest we have never had a problem with snatching. One is stern line other goes forward to spring, I tend to use this technique where ever I go, then we tend to use long leads so rarely have to share cleats. If on a marina berth, sharing cleats is unlikely this is quick secure plus its a good starting point for letting go...
A1Sailor
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ChrisE
Well-Known Member
I'll tell you why, if all of your lines are bowlined and there is a strong surge or wind in the marina, the lines can be loaded to the point where they can't be undone, as we proved in Funchal marina a few years ago. The only way we got off was by leaving the lines behind. They then had to be cut to undo them.
Chris
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
Actually I am very flexible about what people do and perhaps I was deliberately being a little provocative in stating my case.
In real life when teaching or examining I might ask some questions about why people do things and whether they have thought through the pro's and the con's about what they are doing, but life is too short to get too hard and fast about something that's actually got several possible 'correct' answers.
A couple of comments:
A long bowline still runs the risk of chafe - and the answer is to put a round turn through the cleat or the mooring ring.
I still think my original premise is true. Floating pontoons don't do a lot for seamanship awareness. If you tie up to a tidal harbour wall in the way that many people tie up to a pontoon you will be in trouble one of these days. (Or is that why people seem to be averse to tying up to harbour walls nowadays?)
So I very much hope my students don't go away with the impression that 'my methods' are the only methods. They aren't - but I was trying to get people to think about what they do when they tie up as there are good reasons for NOT doing some things. Sometimes its just plain laziness. It takes some effort to come alongside and then sort the lines out so you are tied up in a seamanlike way. Some people seem to think that getting the sundowners out can't wait for five minutes.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
You've got me sussed..Sounds like money for old rope...
