Searush
Well-Known Member
Err, accidentally? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Tho' it isn't usually funny at the time! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Tho' it isn't usually funny at the time! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
how do you jybe
- Thread starter sailbadthesinner
- Start date
dunedin
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone has a preventer fixed when the wind has caught in front of the main ?. What happens ? I dont like preventers for this very reason.
[/ QUOTE ]
Never happened to me yet in practice, but we use a long line led forward from the boom, through the bow mooring cleat and back to a halyard winch. Hence can release under load, either to make a controlled gybe or if got caught aback after a spectacular broach
Has anyone has a preventer fixed when the wind has caught in front of the main ?. What happens ? I dont like preventers for this very reason.
[/ QUOTE ]
Never happened to me yet in practice, but we use a long line led forward from the boom, through the bow mooring cleat and back to a halyard winch. Hence can release under load, either to make a controlled gybe or if got caught aback after a spectacular broach
Slow_boat
Well-Known Member
I'd be a little wary about using the kicking strap-it's not pulling forward and there is hell of a lot of leverage from the end of the boom. If attatched to the chainplate it could, in extreme, rip the shroud plate off. They are designed for vertical load, not sideways. Further, you must be able to release from the cockpit.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone has a preventer fixed when the wind has caught in front of the main ?. What happens ? I dont like preventers for this very reason.
[/ QUOTE ]There is not much point in having a preventer if the thing isn't strong enough to take the load from backing the main. I suppose a lightweight preventer it stops the boom flapping about a bit in a light downwind sail, but you are missing the main safety point of having one fitted. In fact I might suggest that a preventer that isn't 'man' enough is more dangerous. It lulls you into a false sense of security and then lets you down with catastrophic results.
I disagree STRONGLY with the idea of using the kicking strap/two kicking straps as a preventer. If you use this technique and sail in big winds and big seas you will end up breaking the boom.
I also strongly believe in being able to release the preventer from the cockpit.
Gybing involves releasing the preventer, making a controlled gybe (pull the main in as much as you can and then release it as the leach goes through the wind) then reset the preventer.
Has anyone has a preventer fixed when the wind has caught in front of the main ?. What happens ? I dont like preventers for this very reason.
[/ QUOTE ]There is not much point in having a preventer if the thing isn't strong enough to take the load from backing the main. I suppose a lightweight preventer it stops the boom flapping about a bit in a light downwind sail, but you are missing the main safety point of having one fitted. In fact I might suggest that a preventer that isn't 'man' enough is more dangerous. It lulls you into a false sense of security and then lets you down with catastrophic results.
I disagree STRONGLY with the idea of using the kicking strap/two kicking straps as a preventer. If you use this technique and sail in big winds and big seas you will end up breaking the boom.
I also strongly believe in being able to release the preventer from the cockpit.
Gybing involves releasing the preventer, making a controlled gybe (pull the main in as much as you can and then release it as the leach goes through the wind) then reset the preventer.
sailorfred
Member
[ QUOTE ]
If I was sailing dead downwind with the preventer on, I would harden up to a broad reach, take the preventer off, sheet the main in tight, (or have someone manning it to sheet it in tight as we go through the wind), then gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hardening up b4 a gybe is a tragic mistake, please do not listen to this advice. A key part of the gybe is ensuring the boat is as far of the wind as possible (just about to enter the gybe zone) before you comit to the gybe.
[ QUOTE ]
Once through the wind, I would set up on a broad reach, fit the preventer, then bear away to downwind again.
[/ QUOTE ] More dangerous advice, as soon as your main flicks you should straighten the helm, at this point you would be just the other side of the gybe zone. If as suggested you allowed the boat to turn to a broad reach with the main tight in you are creating heal which causes the boat to luff up further, this in turn causes more heal and so on, you loose stearage and the boat screws up to the wind out of control.
I think it is irresponsible to post such inaccurate information here, maybe you get away with this kind of poor techniques in light and medium winds, but your crew and rig will not appreciate this kind of technique in heavier conditions.
If I was sailing dead downwind with the preventer on, I would harden up to a broad reach, take the preventer off, sheet the main in tight, (or have someone manning it to sheet it in tight as we go through the wind), then gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hardening up b4 a gybe is a tragic mistake, please do not listen to this advice. A key part of the gybe is ensuring the boat is as far of the wind as possible (just about to enter the gybe zone) before you comit to the gybe.
[ QUOTE ]
Once through the wind, I would set up on a broad reach, fit the preventer, then bear away to downwind again.
[/ QUOTE ] More dangerous advice, as soon as your main flicks you should straighten the helm, at this point you would be just the other side of the gybe zone. If as suggested you allowed the boat to turn to a broad reach with the main tight in you are creating heal which causes the boat to luff up further, this in turn causes more heal and so on, you loose stearage and the boat screws up to the wind out of control.
I think it is irresponsible to post such inaccurate information here, maybe you get away with this kind of poor techniques in light and medium winds, but your crew and rig will not appreciate this kind of technique in heavier conditions.
Richard10002
Well-Known Member
Not sure what is more tragic and dangerous than an accidental gybe which can kill??
Removing the preventer whilst dead downwind in the heavy winds you are talking about risks an accidental gybe - so I wont be doing that.
Being dead downwind on the opposite gybe without the preventer fitted risks an accidental gybe, so I wont be doing that either.
The way I do it isnt particularly efficient, but it's safer than risking an accidental gybe..... they kill people.
So I'll just beg to differ on this one... and I dont think I'll be the only one to do so.
Removing the preventer whilst dead downwind in the heavy winds you are talking about risks an accidental gybe - so I wont be doing that.
Being dead downwind on the opposite gybe without the preventer fitted risks an accidental gybe, so I wont be doing that either.
The way I do it isnt particularly efficient, but it's safer than risking an accidental gybe..... they kill people.
So I'll just beg to differ on this one... and I dont think I'll be the only one to do so.
fireball
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Hardening up b4 a gybe is a tragic mistake, please do not listen to this advice. A key part of the gybe is ensuring the boat is as far of the wind as possible (just about to enter the gybe zone) before you comit to the gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
If it is strong enough wind to be concerned about gybing then hardening up is (IMO) very good advice - we are only talking a few degrees to ensure we have control over the main & boat.... it also gives you a better arc in which to control the boat following the gybe should it go wrong - ie, if the main slams across whilst dead down wind it is likely to screw the boat round with the healing to match...
[ QUOTE ]
as soon as your main flicks you should straighten the helm, at this point you would be just the other side of the gybe zone. If as suggested you allowed the boat to turn to a broad reach with the main tight in you are creating heal which causes the boat to luff up further,
[/ QUOTE ]
The first bit is correct - as the main goes across you should apply a LITTLE bit of opposite rudder to counter the luffing effect of the main on the new Gybe ... but do not head dead down wind again until the preventer is rigged - the yaw and gusts could easily see an accidental gybe which could end up with a MOB ... not pleasant if you are a) in the conditions when a preventer is recommended and b) restricted in quick actions by a preventer line that is either set or loose.
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is irresponsible to post such inaccurate information here, maybe you get away with this kind of poor techniques in light and medium winds, but your crew and rig will not appreciate this kind of technique in heavier conditions.
[/ QUOTE ]
This technique is used by many including myself, in most conditions - the windier it is, the more likely I will use the technique...
Hardening up b4 a gybe is a tragic mistake, please do not listen to this advice. A key part of the gybe is ensuring the boat is as far of the wind as possible (just about to enter the gybe zone) before you comit to the gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
If it is strong enough wind to be concerned about gybing then hardening up is (IMO) very good advice - we are only talking a few degrees to ensure we have control over the main & boat.... it also gives you a better arc in which to control the boat following the gybe should it go wrong - ie, if the main slams across whilst dead down wind it is likely to screw the boat round with the healing to match...
[ QUOTE ]
as soon as your main flicks you should straighten the helm, at this point you would be just the other side of the gybe zone. If as suggested you allowed the boat to turn to a broad reach with the main tight in you are creating heal which causes the boat to luff up further,
[/ QUOTE ]
The first bit is correct - as the main goes across you should apply a LITTLE bit of opposite rudder to counter the luffing effect of the main on the new Gybe ... but do not head dead down wind again until the preventer is rigged - the yaw and gusts could easily see an accidental gybe which could end up with a MOB ... not pleasant if you are a) in the conditions when a preventer is recommended and b) restricted in quick actions by a preventer line that is either set or loose.
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is irresponsible to post such inaccurate information here, maybe you get away with this kind of poor techniques in light and medium winds, but your crew and rig will not appreciate this kind of technique in heavier conditions.
[/ QUOTE ]
This technique is used by many including myself, in most conditions - the windier it is, the more likely I will use the technique...
john_morris_uk
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I was sailing dead downwind with the preventer on, I would harden up to a broad reach, take the preventer off, sheet the main in tight, (or have someone manning it to sheet it in tight as we go through the wind), then gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hardening up b4 a gybe is a tragic mistake, please do not listen to this advice. A key part of the gybe is ensuring the boat is as far of the wind as possible (just about to enter the gybe zone) before you comit to the gybe. <span style="color:blue">I think you are misunderstanding what is being described. From dead-downwind, the suggestion is - sail on a broad reach to remove the risk of a gybe and so you can remove the preventer, then go back to a controlled gybe by sheeting the main in and easing smartly as you go through the gybe. </span>
[ QUOTE ]
Once through the wind, I would set up on a broad reach, fit the preventer, then bear away to downwind again.
[/ QUOTE ] More dangerous advice, as soon as your main flicks you should straighten the helm, at this point you would be just the other side of the gybe zone. If as suggested you allowed the boat to turn to a broad reach with the main tight in you are creating heal which causes the boat to luff up further, this in turn causes more heal and so on, you loose stearage and the boat screws up to the wind out of control. <span style="color:blue"> See my remarks (above) about easing the main smartly as you go through the gybe. </span>
I think it is irresponsible to post such inaccurate information here, maybe you get away with this kind of poor techniques in light and medium winds, but your crew and rig will not appreciate this kind of technique in heavier conditions.
[/ QUOTE ] <span style="color:blue"> Nothing like a bit of inflamatory nonsense about poor technique. Perhaps you should consider carefully what you say before you lose the power of editing? In fact the technique as described is safe and is what more or less what I would teach and practice. See my other post... </span>
[ QUOTE ]
If I was sailing dead downwind with the preventer on, I would harden up to a broad reach, take the preventer off, sheet the main in tight, (or have someone manning it to sheet it in tight as we go through the wind), then gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hardening up b4 a gybe is a tragic mistake, please do not listen to this advice. A key part of the gybe is ensuring the boat is as far of the wind as possible (just about to enter the gybe zone) before you comit to the gybe. <span style="color:blue">I think you are misunderstanding what is being described. From dead-downwind, the suggestion is - sail on a broad reach to remove the risk of a gybe and so you can remove the preventer, then go back to a controlled gybe by sheeting the main in and easing smartly as you go through the gybe. </span>
[ QUOTE ]
Once through the wind, I would set up on a broad reach, fit the preventer, then bear away to downwind again.
[/ QUOTE ] More dangerous advice, as soon as your main flicks you should straighten the helm, at this point you would be just the other side of the gybe zone. If as suggested you allowed the boat to turn to a broad reach with the main tight in you are creating heal which causes the boat to luff up further, this in turn causes more heal and so on, you loose stearage and the boat screws up to the wind out of control. <span style="color:blue"> See my remarks (above) about easing the main smartly as you go through the gybe. </span>
I think it is irresponsible to post such inaccurate information here, maybe you get away with this kind of poor techniques in light and medium winds, but your crew and rig will not appreciate this kind of technique in heavier conditions.
[/ QUOTE ] <span style="color:blue"> Nothing like a bit of inflamatory nonsense about poor technique. Perhaps you should consider carefully what you say before you lose the power of editing? In fact the technique as described is safe and is what more or less what I would teach and practice. See my other post... </span>
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
He posted at 01.25am. There's only 2 hours before you can't edit.
No going back now. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
No going back now. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
sailorfred
Member
Intresting points,
I read the following[ QUOTE ]
If I was sailing dead downwind with the preventer on, I would harden up to a broad reach, take the preventer off, sheet the main in tight, (or have someone manning it to sheet it in tight as we go through the wind), then gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
to mean the authour is suggesting you gybe from a broad reach, this is something I do not agree with for reasons stated already.
I suspect if you instructor/examiners are teaching gybing you include a bit about taking the boat to the gybe zone before you comit (or something along the same lines).
All this aside I would suggest an experinecd sailor is on the helm for preventor off/back on gybe manoveres in heavier weather. I understand that if you are teaching this might not be the case but for the rest of us an experienced helm makes the manoeuvre pretty straightforward
I read the following[ QUOTE ]
If I was sailing dead downwind with the preventer on, I would harden up to a broad reach, take the preventer off, sheet the main in tight, (or have someone manning it to sheet it in tight as we go through the wind), then gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
to mean the authour is suggesting you gybe from a broad reach, this is something I do not agree with for reasons stated already.
I suspect if you instructor/examiners are teaching gybing you include a bit about taking the boat to the gybe zone before you comit (or something along the same lines).
All this aside I would suggest an experinecd sailor is on the helm for preventor off/back on gybe manoveres in heavier weather. I understand that if you are teaching this might not be the case but for the rest of us an experienced helm makes the manoeuvre pretty straightforward
Richard10002
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Intresting points,
I read the following[ QUOTE ]
If I was sailing dead downwind with the preventer on, I would harden up to a broad reach, take the preventer off, sheet the main in tight, (or have someone manning it to sheet it in tight as we go through the wind), then gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
to mean the authour is suggesting you gybe from a broad reach, this is something I do not agree with for reasons stated already.
I suspect if you instructor/examiners are teaching gybing you include a bit about taking the boat to the gybe zone before you comit (or something along the same lines).
All this aside I would suggest an experinecd sailor is on the helm for preventor off/back on gybe manoveres in heavier weather. I understand that if you are teaching this might not be the case but for the rest of us an experienced helm makes the manoeuvre pretty straightforward
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps I didnt go into enough detail, but I think the gist of what I was saying was reasonably clear, and john has expanded on that. I did suggest having someone manning the mainsheet if available, but the method I describe is safe even if single handed.
If there is a procedure that is safe for an inexperienced helm, then surely that is the one to describe for someone who is asking how to gybe.
Not really sure what you mean by "gybe zone". If you are not dead downwind, you are on a broad reach, which need only be enough to be sure that the wind wont get behind the sail. I tend to gybe gently through the wind, so am not "commited" to the gybe until I am in your "gybe zone", wherever that may be.
I think there is a misunderstanding here, and I am sure that you would be happy with what I do if you saw me do it ... I'm pretty sure it was reinforced during my YM prep. in May/June.
I am coming from a cruising perspective, rather than a racing one, if that makes a difference.
Intresting points,
I read the following[ QUOTE ]
If I was sailing dead downwind with the preventer on, I would harden up to a broad reach, take the preventer off, sheet the main in tight, (or have someone manning it to sheet it in tight as we go through the wind), then gybe.
[/ QUOTE ]
to mean the authour is suggesting you gybe from a broad reach, this is something I do not agree with for reasons stated already.
I suspect if you instructor/examiners are teaching gybing you include a bit about taking the boat to the gybe zone before you comit (or something along the same lines).
All this aside I would suggest an experinecd sailor is on the helm for preventor off/back on gybe manoveres in heavier weather. I understand that if you are teaching this might not be the case but for the rest of us an experienced helm makes the manoeuvre pretty straightforward
[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps I didnt go into enough detail, but I think the gist of what I was saying was reasonably clear, and john has expanded on that. I did suggest having someone manning the mainsheet if available, but the method I describe is safe even if single handed.
If there is a procedure that is safe for an inexperienced helm, then surely that is the one to describe for someone who is asking how to gybe.
Not really sure what you mean by "gybe zone". If you are not dead downwind, you are on a broad reach, which need only be enough to be sure that the wind wont get behind the sail. I tend to gybe gently through the wind, so am not "commited" to the gybe until I am in your "gybe zone", wherever that may be.
I think there is a misunderstanding here, and I am sure that you would be happy with what I do if you saw me do it ... I'm pretty sure it was reinforced during my YM prep. in May/June.
I am coming from a cruising perspective, rather than a racing one, if that makes a difference.
Endeavourquay
Well-Known Member
Happened to the boat I was crewing on over Biscay, accidental jybe going over the crest of a wave, preventer was tied to the link at the end of the boom that the topping lift ties to, ripped the whole piece off the end of the boom!
emergency repairs included tying topping lift and further preventors round the end of the boom. No one hurt though potential was there.
emergency repairs included tying topping lift and further preventors round the end of the boom. No one hurt though potential was there.
sighmoon
Well-Known Member
I have never rigged a preventer, except in the lightest of winds.
If we sail dead downwind in a reasonable blow, I tend to let the kicker off a wee bit, which makes it possible to sail by the lee, and helps keep the gybe under control. I gybe the jib before the main as it helps keep the boat moving a bit quicker, and so stabilizes it.
If we sail dead downwind in a reasonable blow, I tend to let the kicker off a wee bit, which makes it possible to sail by the lee, and helps keep the gybe under control. I gybe the jib before the main as it helps keep the boat moving a bit quicker, and so stabilizes it.
Sgeir
Well-Known Member
Agreed. In very strong winds I'd consider tacking through, but in most situations do as you suggest, ie harden up the main and then make a controlled gybe. How you handle it depends entirely on the conditions.
As for the preventer, once set up, using a block at the bow, it can be controlled and adjusted from the winches in the cockpit. We use a single line;
It works for us while cruising, and can be controlled single handed.
As for the preventer, once set up, using a block at the bow, it can be controlled and adjusted from the winches in the cockpit. We use a single line;
It works for us while cruising, and can be controlled single handed.