How do you “manage” 2-handed passages

[Babylon]

I'd observe (as others have also pointed out) that the OP's issues are to do with the psychological disjuncture between his normal workaday land-life with all its work- and domestic-related activities and timetables and the relatively rare instances of passages which go on for more than a few hours with an increasing sense of nothing to do.

One major point of any structured watch system is to give the off-watch crew not just time to rest or sleep but time also to engage - down below - with things which aren't related in any way to the sailing, navigation or management of the boat, like reading, watching a DVD, carving scrimshaw, knitting, whatever. When you're on-watch give yourself fully to that, but when you're not then surrender yourself to your competent mate and just be a passenger. (Obviously as skipper, you'll want to be called for specified events, e.g. fog ahead, heavy shipping, a sudden deterioration in conditions, etc - but in the absence of any of this lot, just get on with your leisure time!)

One way to ease yourself into this system, say at first on a long day-passage where you don't need to sleep per se, is to set up a one hour off, two hours on system where your wife is given sole charge of the boat for her whole hour while you go below for a doze or a bit of reading or a cross-word puzzle each time; and make sure each change of watch is accompanied by a summary hand-over. Once you've got used to the basic structure you can extend the time(s) on/off-watch, or evolve a system that works for you depending on the length of passage etc.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Only picking on this post because it's last; why do so many of us assume that our dear delicate little flower wife is the weak link in the chain?

Surely the sailing babes have dispelled this notion by now

I was with your all the way until you referred to wives as ‘babes’....

 

[john_morris_uk]

I find a complete contrast in my attitude to passages of 100 miles and passages of 500 or 1000 miles plus.

I’m sitting in our boat having pre dinner drinks knowing that tomorrow we’re setting out to passage from Plymouth to France. The only excitement is that I don’t know where we are going. Trebeurden or Tregier or anywhere on that coast. We don’t care. But I do know that with two us on board I’ll be reaching for the engine start if the winds not keeping our log ticking over. It’s a sixteen or eighteen hour passage and i won’t be too bored because I’ll read and snooze and listen to the Test match but it’s a crossing I’ve done many times before and it’s fairly tedious as far as I’m concerned.

However crossing an ocean I get a totally different mindset. Becalmed means a chance to swim. You get into a rhythm of living at sea. Cooking becomes competitive. You haven’t got enough diesel to motor so reaching for the engine start isn’t an option. I read a lot. I enjoy the sailing. Half way party is planned. Daily sun downer (strict one drink limit) means the whole crew get together. The arrival is exciting and anticipated. The daily round of checking the boat. You maintain things while under way. What’s not to like?

 

[solent clown]

I find a complete contrast in my attitude to passages of 100 miles and passages of 500 or 1000 miles plus.

I’m sitting in our boat having pre dinner drinks knowing that tomorrow we’re setting out to passage from Plymouth to France. The only excitement is that I don’t know where we are going. Trebeurden or Tregier or anywhere on that coast. We don’t care. But I do know that with two us on board I’ll be reaching for the engine start if the winds not keeping our log ticking over. It’s a sixteen or eighteen hour passage and i won’t be too bored because I’ll read and snooze and listen to the Test match but it’s a crossing I’ve done many times before and it’s fairly tedious as far as I’m concerned.

However crossing an ocean I get a totally different mindset. Becalmed means a chance to swim. You get into a rhythm of living at sea. Cooking becomes competitive. You haven’t got enough diesel to motor so reaching for the engine start isn’t an option. I read a lot. I enjoy the sailing. Half way party is planned. Daily sun downer (strict one drink limit) means the whole crew get together. The arrival is exciting and anticipated. The daily round of checking the boat. You maintain things while under way. What’s not to like?

I am going to save and print that. It will be a motivational and aspirational tool

 

[solent clown]

Macd in #5 sums it up nicely.
When you start thinking of your boat as home. When out of earshot of R4 there are things to clean, mend, tidy.
You say that you worry about wife getting put off by sitting alone and getting cold, encourage her to shout if she needs spelling or let her do short watches of an hour.
You don't say if you have an autohelm, but using one leaves the person on watch to relax​ and move around to relieve stiffness and boredom.

out of earshot of R4??????????????????????????

 

[Praxinoscope]

I find a complete contrast in my attitude to passages of 100 miles and passages of 500 or 1000 miles plus.

I’m sitting in our boat having pre dinner drinks knowing that tomorrow we’re setting out to passage from Plymouth to France. The only excitement is that I don’t know where we are going. Trebeurden or Tregier or anywhere on that coast. We don’t care. But I do know that with two us on board I’ll be reaching for the engine start if the winds not keeping our log ticking over. It’s a sixteen or eighteen hour passage and i won’t be too bored because I’ll read and snooze and listen to the Test match but it’s a crossing I’ve done many times before and it’s fairly tedious as far as I’m concerned.

However crossing an ocean I get a totally different mindset. Becalmed means a chance to swim. You get into a rhythm of living at sea. Cooking becomes competitive. You haven’t got enough diesel to motor so reaching for the engine start isn’t an option. I read a lot. I enjoy the sailing. Half way party is planned. Daily sun downer (strict one drink limit) means the whole crew get together. The arrival is exciting and anticipated. The daily round of checking the boat. You maintain things while under way. What’s not to like?

I agree with the above, a couple of years ago two of us sailed down to Northern Spain and back, in my Invicta26, it took us about 10 days to sail back from just South of the Finistere lighthouse to Milford Haven, 4 hrs on 4hrs off is a bit like hard work, but we were never bored, do a bit of maintenance read a bit, snooze and have an iPod or MP3 loaded with things you want to listen to, especially on the night watches.
A 12 to 18 hr sail is easy, no time to get bored, do D.R. Navigation and keep your log up to date, time will soon pass by.

 

[lw395]

I agree with the above, a couple of years ago two of us sailed down to Northern Spain and back, in my Invicta26, it took us about 10 days to sail back from just South of the Finistere lighthouse to Milford Haven, 4 hrs on 4hrs off is a bit like hard work, but we were never bored, do a bit of maintenance read a bit, snooze and have an iPod or MP3 loaded with things you want to listen to, especially on the night watches.
A 12 to 18 hr sail is easy, no time to get bored, do D.R. Navigation and keep your log up to date, time will soon pass by.

I disagree a little, an 18hr sail can be boring, because you're not going to start any onboard jobs and there is the frustration factor of wanting to arrive and get some sleep.
A 6 hr passage motoring can be very dull IMHO.
I can get bored on a 20 minute beat in a dinghy.
As John said, on a longer trip, you think differently. 6 hours a day of manual steering with nothing in sight, my mindset changes.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I disagree a little, an 18hr sail can be boring, because you're not going to start any onboard jobs and there is the frustration factor of wanting to arrive and get some sleep.
A 6 hr passage motoring can be very dull IMHO.
I can get bored on a 20 minute beat in a dinghy.
As John said, on a longer trip, you think differently. 6 hours a day of manual steering with nothing in sight, my mindset changes.

I hate manual steering for hours on end. I’ve been known to hit the auto button as soon as we’ve dropped the mooring and got clear of the other boats. Steering is interesting (for me) when racing or doing close quarters work or pilotage. Except I get someone else to steer if I’m doing the pilotage....

If it’s lumpy I can get sick, but it goes after the first 24 hours. After that you’ll find me feet up down below, wedged in a corner reading a book while the boat rolls all over the place. Heavy seas are wearing though. I certainly try to avoid beating for day after day. (Longest beat was 1200 miles N from Rio de Janeiro to turn left and pick up the trades to the Carib’. It was a good movement when we finally popped the kite...)

I find passages like tomorrow’s tedious because I just want to get there. Hence reaching for the iron topsail when the speed drops too much. We’ve got three weeks cruising ahead of us and I’d rather spend it coast hopping between French bars and restaurants than doing 2 knots mid channel.

 

[TonyMS]

For me, sailing is an activity best enjoyed between breakfast and dinner at anchor. We reached the Ionian via Gibraltar with only 5 overnight sails. And now we'll never have to do one again. Within the Ionian, you can cover the whole area in short day sails, reaching a new idyllic port every night. And it would be difficult to get seasick.

TonyMS

 

[lw395]

I hate manual steering for hours on end. I’ve been known to hit the auto button as soon as we’ve dropped the mooring and got clear of the other boats. Steering is interesting (for me) when racing or doing close quarters work or pilotage. Except I get someone else to steer if I’m doing the pilotage....

If it’s lumpy I can get sick, but it goes after the first 24 hours. After that you’ll find me feet up down below, wedged in a corner reading a book while the boat rolls all over the place. Heavy seas are wearing though. I certainly try to avoid beating for day after day. (Longest beat was 1200 miles N from Rio de Janeiro to turn left and pick up the trades to the Carib’. It was a good movement when we finally popped the kite...)

I find passages like tomorrow’s tedious because I just want to get there. Hence reaching for the iron topsail when the speed drops too much. We’ve got three weeks cruising ahead of us and I’d rather spend it coast hopping between French bars and restaurants than doing 2 knots mid channel.

I don't mind steering. It's not hard and I'm mostly going to be on deck anyway. I'd rather be doing something instead of just looking for ships.
Nice to have the auto for when other stuff needs doing, but I've done a couple of long trips with duff autopilots and not missed it apart from needing to lock the helm to do odd jobs.

 

[capnsensible]

Some years ago we left Gib bound for the Canaries, Cape Verdes and the Caribbean. Tarifa is about nine miles from Gib, which is where our autopilot reverted to several smaller parts.

Spent the rest of the 10 month cruise across, round the islands and back hand steering.

We are both now very good at that but bought a hydrovane for the second tour.......

 

[Praxinoscope]

Some years ago we left Gib bound for the Canaries, Cape Verdes and the Caribbean. Tarifa is about nine miles from Gib, which is where our autopilot reverted to several smaller parts.

Spent the rest of the 10 month cruise across, round the islands and back hand steering.

We are both now very good at that but bought a hydrovane for the second tour.......

The biggest regret I have, is that when I sold my last boat I sold the Navik self steering gear, I should have kept it for my new boat, it was great on long hauls instead of using the auto helm. Anyone planning relatively long passages should look at wind vane self steering.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Some years ago we left Gib bound for the Canaries, Cape Verdes and the Caribbean. Tarifa is about nine miles from Gib, which is where our autopilot reverted to several smaller parts.

Spent the rest of the 10 month cruise across, round the islands and back hand steering.

We are both now very good at that but bought a hydrovane for the second tour.......

None at of the services yachts have autopilots so I’ve done my fair share of hand steering. I just prefer keeping watch and being able to move around and keep busy. If I read I often use a kitchen timer to make sure I look round every few minutes.

We’ve got a nice auto pilot on its own quadrant on the rudder stock. I don’t trust it to steer across an ocean so there’s a Hydrovane in boxes on the pilot berth bunk waiting to be fitted...

 

[capnsensible]

The Hydrovane is truly a wonderful invention and you should encourage yours to leave its nest!

I once helmed British Soldier (Nicholson 55 ) at close on 17 knots in a following near gale in the Bay of Biscay. I was young enough to enjoy it at the time.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The Hydrovane is truly a wonderful invention and you should encourage yours to leave its nest!

I once helmed British Soldier (Nicholson 55 ) at close on 17 knots in a following near gale in the Bay of Biscay. I was young enough to enjoy it at the time.

It will fly it’s nest very soon. I picked it up brand new and never fitted from an owner whose global sailing ambitions had been cut short for family reasons. The only problem is the shaft is a standard one and I want a longer one (don’t we all..?). It’s the latest model so I’m hoping the Hydrovane will swap the shaft for me but I’m not holding my breath! Fortunately it was such a bargain I’m not too worried. I can always sell on the standard brand new shaft that will be surplus to my requirements.

I could (In theory) get away with the standard shaft length but I’ve got a dinghy on davits on the transom and I wanted to get the wind vane in clean air.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Perhaps i’ve chosen the wrong pastime but neither my wife nor I particularly enjoy long passages, preferring to coast hop and stop enroute if we have time, geography and weather on our side

Nevertheless we accept that if we want to go new places then such passages are a necessary obstacle to be overcome. I enjoy the planning and the navigation etc but just don’t really get much stimulation once we are settled onto a course with a steady wind and out of sight of land for the next 15 hours! Not helped by being slightly prone to seasickness, albeit not the debilitating kind, but just queasy if the seas start to build!

Just wondering whether I am alone in this and if not how others best manage it?

My wife is compcrew++ and we do each try and have time “off watch”, but I find it difficult to relax down below for more than ten or fifteen minutes without wanting to check all is OK! She similarly feels we are better off together in the cockpit!

I’m retiring next year and we really want to try and get further afield and sail some of the great areas in the UK and beyond, but if we can’t find a way to “mentally adjust” to longer passages ( Eg Lands End to S. Wales or direct to R.o. Ireland) then it’s going to be a struggle,

Im sure there’s no silver bullet but any tips and tricks would help as indeed would the thought that we aren’t unique in being sailors who don’t like sailing!

I've done quite a bit of crewing helping owners "position" their boats for the family to come and join them later. It's a win for everybody - the owner gets to sail with people who just love to sail, the boats gets to somewhere the family want to be without them suffering a passage and they appreciate the boat more because of that, I get to sail some really passages and boats with some really nice people...

If you can get a decent crew of 3 or 4 with right mindset and experience (they don't need to Oceanmasters, just trustworthy and competent) then a passage becomes far more relaxing. Two skippers/watch officers and two good crew and even 3 or 4 days are OK. If you trust your crew then everything is much more relaxing.

The other alternative I guess is to coast hop and leave the boat there, taking a train/bus/ferry back home until you can pick up where you left off. Don't know if any of the marina deals, such as Trans-Ocean would help? Things do tend get cheaper once you're clear of the UK South Coast.

 

[Sybarite]

I find a complete contrast in my attitude to passages of 100 miles and passages of 500 or 1000 miles plus.

I’m sitting in our boat having pre dinner drinks knowing that tomorrow we’re setting out to passage from Plymouth to France. The only excitement is that I don’t know where we are going. Trebeurden or Tregier or anywhere on that coast. We don’t care. But I do know that with two us on board I’ll be reaching for the engine start if the winds not keeping our log ticking over. It’s a sixteen or eighteen hour passage and i won’t be too bored because I’ll read and listen to the Test match and snooze but it’s a crossing I’ve done many times before and it’s fairly tedious as far as I’m concerned.

However crossing an ocean I get a totally different mindset. Becalmed means a chance to swim. You get into a rhythm of living at sea. Cooking becomes competitive. You haven’t got enough diesel to motor so reaching for the engine start isn’t an option. I read a lot. I enjoy the sailing. Half way party is planned. Daily sun downer (strict one drink limit) means the whole crew get together. The arrival is exciting and anticipated. The daily round of checking the boat. You maintain things while under way. What’s not to like?

Corrected that for you John....

 

[Sybarite]

It also avoids pee going all over the place!

The rule on the boat is "Gentlemen, kindly be seated."

Solo on board a wide-necked bottle proves useful.

 

[alant]

The rule on the boat is "Gentlemen, kindly be seated."

Solo on board a wide-necked bottle proves useful.

Bragging as usual.

 

[LadyInBed]

out of earshot of R4??????????????????????????

About a third of the way across Biscay, if going in that direction.