chippie
New member
I have seen water filters aimed at backpackers and the like that state how many (few) microns the holes are and they claim that they will filter out giardia organisms. Dont know the brand names though.
How do I cancel My PBO
- Thread starter Jcorstorphine
- Start date
ccscott49
Active member
The "General Ecology" ones, most certainly do filter out nasties, I use on on my boat, with a seperate tap (supplied) for all my drinking needs, brilliant for water for my cuppa! But no nasty taste, just as pure as spring water from bottles, certainly good enough for my cask strength malts!
G
Guest
Guest
The ex editor of a biker magazine I used to read explained that the income from sales of the mag did not even cover printing costs - the major income was from the advertisers and this onbviously influenced what could be printed. It was subsequently explained that we should never believe literally what was written in a new bike test since the most they could ever do to point out a "dog" was to hint obliquely at problems.
Who dominates PBO income. Is it the magazine buyers, or the advertisers?
Who dominates PBO income. Is it the magazine buyers, or the advertisers?
kimhollamby
Active member
Readers are valued
Forget economics for a moment - the readers are the priority in any well run title and PBO is no exception. No readers = no advertisers.
In the case of PBO its circulation figures also mean that subscriptions and copy sales contribute substantially to its turnover. That is not always the case with weaker specialist interest magazines (I'm talking in general terms now) and you can find situations in publishing houses where the editor is dominated by the ad manager. That is certainly not the case here - you'd hear the howl from wherever you live if it ever started to head that way.
It is also the case that UK boating magazines exercise one of the most liberal and independent standpoints of boating media anywhere across the globe. That's not a xenophobic comment; it is one made purely drawn from the experience of talking with many overseas readers and advertisers over the years.
Is the language moderated in any way? I think it is in all publications these days, but more often than not for legal reasons given that we have to stay the right side of the libel and slander laws. Tabloids are probably the only media these days to aggressively explore the edges but I suspect they allocate a substantial part of their marketing budget to legal defence and you've seen the result of pushing the edge which is all too often inaccurate anyway.
In the case of specialist titles one court case can involve an editor and members of his/her team in months of activity, often to defend perfectly legitimate reporting which was simply phrased in an unfortunate way. This does nothing for the quality of the title and everything (with apologies to those of you in the legal profession) for the earnings of solicitors and barristers.
In summary I don't believe the marine titles here pursue dishonest editorial policies - if they did we would not be in business. Sadly I suspect your friend's bike magazine may have already headed that way if it has not already done so.
kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
Forget economics for a moment - the readers are the priority in any well run title and PBO is no exception. No readers = no advertisers.
In the case of PBO its circulation figures also mean that subscriptions and copy sales contribute substantially to its turnover. That is not always the case with weaker specialist interest magazines (I'm talking in general terms now) and you can find situations in publishing houses where the editor is dominated by the ad manager. That is certainly not the case here - you'd hear the howl from wherever you live if it ever started to head that way.
It is also the case that UK boating magazines exercise one of the most liberal and independent standpoints of boating media anywhere across the globe. That's not a xenophobic comment; it is one made purely drawn from the experience of talking with many overseas readers and advertisers over the years.
Is the language moderated in any way? I think it is in all publications these days, but more often than not for legal reasons given that we have to stay the right side of the libel and slander laws. Tabloids are probably the only media these days to aggressively explore the edges but I suspect they allocate a substantial part of their marketing budget to legal defence and you've seen the result of pushing the edge which is all too often inaccurate anyway.
In the case of specialist titles one court case can involve an editor and members of his/her team in months of activity, often to defend perfectly legitimate reporting which was simply phrased in an unfortunate way. This does nothing for the quality of the title and everything (with apologies to those of you in the legal profession) for the earnings of solicitors and barristers.
In summary I don't believe the marine titles here pursue dishonest editorial policies - if they did we would not be in business. Sadly I suspect your friend's bike magazine may have already headed that way if it has not already done so.
kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
Allanrichard
New member
A couple of years ago I cancelled my PBO and Yachting World from my local newsagent and retained the Sailing Today as a regular. I made up my mind that if there was anything interesting in the PBO or YW I could have a quick look in W H Smiths and purchase it if there was anything interesting. I haven't missed a copy of the PBO yet and always bought it!
So, I should imagine that there is always something for somebody - PBO must be doing something right.
So, I should imagine that there is always something for somebody - PBO must be doing something right.
rickpayne
New member
I agree with Allan.
I am a newcomer to forums and kniow that most boat owners are not the bored internet junkies who usualy hog bullettin boards like this one. In fact most boat owners I know do not even understand the internet, so tell the pbo staff not to be too worried about what is said here, Theirs a hell of a lot of boat people out there who like pbo thats why the circolation is so good.
I am a newcomer to forums and kniow that most boat owners are not the bored internet junkies who usualy hog bullettin boards like this one. In fact most boat owners I know do not even understand the internet, so tell the pbo staff not to be too worried about what is said here, Theirs a hell of a lot of boat people out there who like pbo thats why the circolation is so good.
Johnjo
New member
If everyone stopped buying the magazines, then would,nt this forum
cease to exist?
As I am totally addicted, that would never do!!!!!
So I will keep on having a moan occasionaly, just to let them know that
I,m here!!!!!
But to actually stop buying P.B.O and to carry on using the forums without
actually contributing towards the running cost,
Well, it just would not sit right with me.
mike
cease to exist?
As I am totally addicted, that would never do!!!!!
So I will keep on having a moan occasionaly, just to let them know that
I,m here!!!!!
But to actually stop buying P.B.O and to carry on using the forums without
actually contributing towards the running cost,
Well, it just would not sit right with me.
mike
FlyingSpud
Member
Re: Readers are valued
Kim, I accept almost all of what you say, and I am all for giving Sarah Norbury a chance, but if everything you say is correct, then can you explain why there have been, I think, three separate mentions of Pat Manley’s comment that a ‘modern mass produced boat’ can only have the gear box changed on its sail drive if you cut open a bulkhead and that when he put this to the importer they confirmed that was correct and their advice to a new purchaser was to sell the boat when it was 6 years old?
Why wasn’t the boat named? Is this a boat that PBO have reviewed? To simply say the magazine wants to avoid disputes and court cases means that, in effect, all reviews of all boats should come with a warning that nothing bad will be said about them.
I am a supporter of the magazine, but do think this point deserves an answer
Kim, I accept almost all of what you say, and I am all for giving Sarah Norbury a chance, but if everything you say is correct, then can you explain why there have been, I think, three separate mentions of Pat Manley’s comment that a ‘modern mass produced boat’ can only have the gear box changed on its sail drive if you cut open a bulkhead and that when he put this to the importer they confirmed that was correct and their advice to a new purchaser was to sell the boat when it was 6 years old?
Why wasn’t the boat named? Is this a boat that PBO have reviewed? To simply say the magazine wants to avoid disputes and court cases means that, in effect, all reviews of all boats should come with a warning that nothing bad will be said about them.
I am a supporter of the magazine, but do think this point deserves an answer
kimhollamby
Active member
Re: Readers are valued
I don't know the answer to your question but I will be seeing the PBO team on 2 Jan and will ask them to review this whole thread.
In general terms the boat would not be named if the inmformation came from a third party source and could not, or had yet to be, validated as accurate. In cases where the necessary Is and Ts have been dotted/crossed there would nomally be no reason not to name. In fact it is often not helpful to name anonymously as it just leads to speculation.
kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
I don't know the answer to your question but I will be seeing the PBO team on 2 Jan and will ask them to review this whole thread.
In general terms the boat would not be named if the inmformation came from a third party source and could not, or had yet to be, validated as accurate. In cases where the necessary Is and Ts have been dotted/crossed there would nomally be no reason not to name. In fact it is often not helpful to name anonymously as it just leads to speculation.
kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
samwise
New member
Oh boy! What a hornets nest disturbed!
As a former senior edit with IPC / Reed Business Press, I am sad to see that the organisation has still not learned its lesson and is still slavishly following the policies that ( in my experience) destroyed its motoring titles.
Certainly, magazines should evolve and reflect the changing needs and interests of its readership, but the editorial team should be aware of the market niche the magazine occupies and have the self-belief to stick with it and continue to do what they do very well.
What happened here is that a newcomer ( Sailing Today) challenged the monopoly. But instead of going up a gear, but remaining largely on the same course ( sorry to mix the metaphors!) YM and now PBO seem determined to dumb down and try to be all things to all people -- the result is as best average, at worst trivial and fluffy.
Besides losing the plot, I think they have also lost touch with the readership. I could relate to Geoff Pack and Rodger Witt (where and why did he go?), even dear old George Taylor. I can still relate to Andrew Bray. The reason? These guys (no sexism intended) seemed to be real sailors, more interested in getting out there and sailing and writing about it, rather than driving a desk, cut off from the readership.
All the lengthy readership surveys in the world will not tell you how to put together a magazine. My criterion for me and my staff was always to produce a mag that they, as enthusiasts, would want to read themselves. Any thoughts on that Kim?
As a former senior edit with IPC / Reed Business Press, I am sad to see that the organisation has still not learned its lesson and is still slavishly following the policies that ( in my experience) destroyed its motoring titles.
Certainly, magazines should evolve and reflect the changing needs and interests of its readership, but the editorial team should be aware of the market niche the magazine occupies and have the self-belief to stick with it and continue to do what they do very well.
What happened here is that a newcomer ( Sailing Today) challenged the monopoly. But instead of going up a gear, but remaining largely on the same course ( sorry to mix the metaphors!) YM and now PBO seem determined to dumb down and try to be all things to all people -- the result is as best average, at worst trivial and fluffy.
Besides losing the plot, I think they have also lost touch with the readership. I could relate to Geoff Pack and Rodger Witt (where and why did he go?), even dear old George Taylor. I can still relate to Andrew Bray. The reason? These guys (no sexism intended) seemed to be real sailors, more interested in getting out there and sailing and writing about it, rather than driving a desk, cut off from the readership.
All the lengthy readership surveys in the world will not tell you how to put together a magazine. My criterion for me and my staff was always to produce a mag that they, as enthusiasts, would want to read themselves. Any thoughts on that Kim?
FlyingSpud
Member
Re: Readers are valued
Confirming the allegation must be the correct thing for the Magazine to do, but here it seemed to have been confirmed six months ago by the importer. I will be interested in the response of the team. I not notice there was no need to do this over the Centaur rudder stocks (which turned out to be an error) or the problem with a few of the Nic 32’s.
Honestly, I am on your side. I do not agree that PBO stands for Poor Boat Owner as some seem to say here, but I do think the magazine has to decide if it is there to represent the trade to the users or the users with the trade. Recently (and this was during Roger Witt’s time) it has seemed to become the Trade sales magazine.
Confirming the allegation must be the correct thing for the Magazine to do, but here it seemed to have been confirmed six months ago by the importer. I will be interested in the response of the team. I not notice there was no need to do this over the Centaur rudder stocks (which turned out to be an error) or the problem with a few of the Nic 32’s.
Honestly, I am on your side. I do not agree that PBO stands for Poor Boat Owner as some seem to say here, but I do think the magazine has to decide if it is there to represent the trade to the users or the users with the trade. Recently (and this was during Roger Witt’s time) it has seemed to become the Trade sales magazine.
poter
Active member
Not really helpfull!!
"Most boat owners are not the bored internet junkies who usually hog bulletin boards like this one. In fact most boat owners I know do not even understand the internet,"
Ermmm.
I think you will find that most of the "Internet Junkies" on this board are in fact boat owners and have a wealth of experience which they do not mind passing on to others.
I really do not understand your comment that people who use boats are not able to use computer's/internet. What are they going to do with their GPS, VHF/DSC, and navigation systems? Even reading a tide table, if what you are implying is that the Internet is too technical?
I do not really have a position on the PBO, but for sure the PBO staff will be worried about what is said on here, as this is probably one of the best focus groups that they are likely to get.
Comments both good and critical are welcomed by any responsible specialist magazine, otherwise how will they get their content right?
poter.
"Most boat owners are not the bored internet junkies who usually hog bulletin boards like this one. In fact most boat owners I know do not even understand the internet,"
Ermmm.
I think you will find that most of the "Internet Junkies" on this board are in fact boat owners and have a wealth of experience which they do not mind passing on to others.
I really do not understand your comment that people who use boats are not able to use computer's/internet. What are they going to do with their GPS, VHF/DSC, and navigation systems? Even reading a tide table, if what you are implying is that the Internet is too technical?
I do not really have a position on the PBO, but for sure the PBO staff will be worried about what is said on here, as this is probably one of the best focus groups that they are likely to get.
Comments both good and critical are welcomed by any responsible specialist magazine, otherwise how will they get their content right?
poter.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: Readers are valued
Kim
Thank you for your reply to my question. I can quite understand your magazines determination to keep out of the hands of the lawyers, particularly after the "wingsail" case. Nor, I suspect, do many of us want the black and white sensationalism of the tabloids, with their instant and simplistic judgments.
However, too much listening to lawyers can make Jack a dull boy. And that is what PBO and YM are becoming. A few carefully researched, clinically correct exposees of bad boats, bad kit and bad companies might do your sales and therefore your ad revenue a power of good.
There must be some poor boats. Not everything in the garden is rosy.
Kim
Thank you for your reply to my question. I can quite understand your magazines determination to keep out of the hands of the lawyers, particularly after the "wingsail" case. Nor, I suspect, do many of us want the black and white sensationalism of the tabloids, with their instant and simplistic judgments.
However, too much listening to lawyers can make Jack a dull boy. And that is what PBO and YM are becoming. A few carefully researched, clinically correct exposees of bad boats, bad kit and bad companies might do your sales and therefore your ad revenue a power of good.
There must be some poor boats. Not everything in the garden is rosy.
LadyInBed
Well-known member
Some Ideas for PBO
The same questions come up on the forums time and time again. Some posts here raise a great deal of apparently informed debate. Surely this should be a guide as to what the 'readers' really want to know.
Many useful links are posted here, how about a regular slot reviewing one or two of the Web Sites.
As has been mentioned, an investigation into joining chain and the strength of the joins would be interesting.
Lots of odd articles appear on the correct knot for the job, I don’t ever remember seeing a series on types of splices on different types of rope and rope to chain.
There are lots of different types of shackles, which is best for what, and what are their relative merits.
Methods of reefing down and how to go about it.
How about an interview with the French Customs or even the appropriate Minister regarding the documentation they expect British flagged boats to carry when visiting France.
Personally I like the pull out and keep series as in the Sailing Today harbour guides. A few years back, PBO did some booklets, a couple that come to mind are 'Celestial Navigation', another (June 97) 'On Board Electrics', that's one that could do with a review, as a lot changes in five years.
The same questions come up on the forums time and time again. Some posts here raise a great deal of apparently informed debate. Surely this should be a guide as to what the 'readers' really want to know.
Many useful links are posted here, how about a regular slot reviewing one or two of the Web Sites.
As has been mentioned, an investigation into joining chain and the strength of the joins would be interesting.
Lots of odd articles appear on the correct knot for the job, I don’t ever remember seeing a series on types of splices on different types of rope and rope to chain.
There are lots of different types of shackles, which is best for what, and what are their relative merits.
Methods of reefing down and how to go about it.
How about an interview with the French Customs or even the appropriate Minister regarding the documentation they expect British flagged boats to carry when visiting France.
Personally I like the pull out and keep series as in the Sailing Today harbour guides. A few years back, PBO did some booklets, a couple that come to mind are 'Celestial Navigation', another (June 97) 'On Board Electrics', that's one that could do with a review, as a lot changes in five years.
rickpayne
New member
Re: Not really helpfull!!
You have not bothered to read properly what I wrote.
I did not say that the people who appear here do not own boats.
I certainly think that there are more boat owners who are not PC/Internet fans than there are, so what appears here is only a small blade of grass in a big field.
Nav systems and tide tables are a long way removed from internet understanding.
I did not say that all people who use boats cannot understand computers (I certainly know plenty who are not interested in them) but I stick by what i did say which is that there are many more out there than there are in here so pbo can take notice but let us not flatter ourselves that they should take too much notice of such a small cross section.... especially as history proves that the content stay silent. It is usually only the malcontents who moan aloud.
also nobody has said that pbo will not listen to suggestions .... constructive that is.
You have not bothered to read properly what I wrote.
I did not say that the people who appear here do not own boats.
I certainly think that there are more boat owners who are not PC/Internet fans than there are, so what appears here is only a small blade of grass in a big field.
Nav systems and tide tables are a long way removed from internet understanding.
I did not say that all people who use boats cannot understand computers (I certainly know plenty who are not interested in them) but I stick by what i did say which is that there are many more out there than there are in here so pbo can take notice but let us not flatter ourselves that they should take too much notice of such a small cross section.... especially as history proves that the content stay silent. It is usually only the malcontents who moan aloud.
also nobody has said that pbo will not listen to suggestions .... constructive that is.
kimhollamby
Active member
Re: Not really helpfull!!
Welcome to the forums Rick.
To assure all parties here, the forums offer a further avenue of magazine feedback to the tools that we use already - namely reader correspondence (increasingly but still not exclusively on email), face-to-face meets at shows and events, organised focus groups and formal surveys (both in magazine and also by research groups). There will be no knee-jerk response to any of those systems.
All forms of research tend to be coloured by the form they take but the comments here on Reader to Reader are nonetheless valuable for that. The fact that some appear a little harsh in black and white is the nature of the bulletin board beast - ditto the fact that there will often be lead players in amongst the comments. Obviously if more rather than less get involved that helps but we would equally hope to respond to comments and feedback from individuals.
kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
Welcome to the forums Rick.
To assure all parties here, the forums offer a further avenue of magazine feedback to the tools that we use already - namely reader correspondence (increasingly but still not exclusively on email), face-to-face meets at shows and events, organised focus groups and formal surveys (both in magazine and also by research groups). There will be no knee-jerk response to any of those systems.
All forms of research tend to be coloured by the form they take but the comments here on Reader to Reader are nonetheless valuable for that. The fact that some appear a little harsh in black and white is the nature of the bulletin board beast - ditto the fact that there will often be lead players in amongst the comments. Obviously if more rather than less get involved that helps but we would equally hope to respond to comments and feedback from individuals.
kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
kimhollamby
Active member
Sorry but please park the conspiracy theory
My initial thought is one of slight amazement that you think there could be a root editorial policy running through IPC at all, let alone one dating back to the days that some of its titles were linked with Reed. Editors must have been weaker in your day because as a breed they tend to be anarchic by nature if faced by policies they don't like.
You of all people should know that one of the biggest problems for a corporate publisher if it wants to think corporate is that it is not one company in reality but a whole series of small companies known as magazines gathered under one roof. Editorial staff tend to be famously loyal to their mastheads, not to the company. That's the way it works. So, not for the first time, let me deny the consipiracy theory that editors are dancing to detailed tunes laid down by senior board members - perhaps your experience was different but it isn't amongst the marine titles.
As a breed we do have to be more business aware - but then tell me of an occupation where this is not the case now.
Secondly your comments seem to suggest that there are no, or very few, real sailors left on the boating titles here. Again, that's not fair. I've not taken time out to look at the proportions of staff who rate boating as their number one life interest against anything else across, say, 20 years but I do know that there are plenty of people here who wouldn't put in the hours and effort if it wasn't for a deeply-routed passion in the subject they write about. If the verdict is that is not translating then I admit that is dangerous lesson for us in the need to communicate that passion more clearly but it is not an indicator of a deep rot.
Not all staff can be crossing the transatlantic every other month; demands of the titles see to that. But we have a very broad balance of experience represented through the editorial (and advertising and admin teams) from those who could hold down a berth on the most technically challenging of yachts, through at least two trained naval architects, right through to weekend sailors - the latter arguably being more representative of readerships and therefore perhaps more understanding of them. When staff with little or no boating experience are employed for their publishing skills they are encouraged to gain knowledge and training in boating.
The magazines also seek to harness as broader range of skills and experience outside of the immediate team as possible. It's not always easy, trying to combine those attributes with good writing and photography skills but it does provide further strength to what is already there.
In terms of your comment suggesting that magazines are trying to be all things to all people, I've already stated elsewhere that boating has broadened its reach in all sorts of ways since the founding fathers unleashed PBO upon the world - value of boat, type of boat, geographical area of boating have all expanded. So if, for example, one of our titles does not concentrate exclusively on a very narrow remit is not entirely surprising.
Research tells us that not all people these days have the attention span to read 3000 words in 7pt on 8pt crammed into two pages with one black and white pic; our magazines are bound to reflect some of the changing habits of society and also the huge changes in print, production, illustration and photographic systems of the past decade. Whether we get that balance right is of course open to debate and that is fair and natural for us both to take criticism and to take note of it.
Lest anybody read the wrong thing into the last paragraph, I am violently against dumbing down and have always been one of those slightly dishonest editors who tells his contributors to keep it short and sweet only to excessively overwrite my latest offering. If you want to see absolute garbage soundbite journalism then look at some of the recent fad magazines - the ones covering mobile phones are a perfect example in my book (unless they have changed since the last time I bought one in a vain attempt to look for advice).
Whatever you take from this slightly knee-jerky reply, please at least give the editors on the boating titles here credit for having enthusiasm for their subject and also for being charged with a lot of responsibility for their individual magazines' destinies. I for one believe both of those statements to be true of the people I work with here.
Sorry, but this one was from the heart - perhaps I'll read it with my head screwed on later!
kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
My initial thought is one of slight amazement that you think there could be a root editorial policy running through IPC at all, let alone one dating back to the days that some of its titles were linked with Reed. Editors must have been weaker in your day because as a breed they tend to be anarchic by nature if faced by policies they don't like.
You of all people should know that one of the biggest problems for a corporate publisher if it wants to think corporate is that it is not one company in reality but a whole series of small companies known as magazines gathered under one roof. Editorial staff tend to be famously loyal to their mastheads, not to the company. That's the way it works. So, not for the first time, let me deny the consipiracy theory that editors are dancing to detailed tunes laid down by senior board members - perhaps your experience was different but it isn't amongst the marine titles.
As a breed we do have to be more business aware - but then tell me of an occupation where this is not the case now.
Secondly your comments seem to suggest that there are no, or very few, real sailors left on the boating titles here. Again, that's not fair. I've not taken time out to look at the proportions of staff who rate boating as their number one life interest against anything else across, say, 20 years but I do know that there are plenty of people here who wouldn't put in the hours and effort if it wasn't for a deeply-routed passion in the subject they write about. If the verdict is that is not translating then I admit that is dangerous lesson for us in the need to communicate that passion more clearly but it is not an indicator of a deep rot.
Not all staff can be crossing the transatlantic every other month; demands of the titles see to that. But we have a very broad balance of experience represented through the editorial (and advertising and admin teams) from those who could hold down a berth on the most technically challenging of yachts, through at least two trained naval architects, right through to weekend sailors - the latter arguably being more representative of readerships and therefore perhaps more understanding of them. When staff with little or no boating experience are employed for their publishing skills they are encouraged to gain knowledge and training in boating.
The magazines also seek to harness as broader range of skills and experience outside of the immediate team as possible. It's not always easy, trying to combine those attributes with good writing and photography skills but it does provide further strength to what is already there.
In terms of your comment suggesting that magazines are trying to be all things to all people, I've already stated elsewhere that boating has broadened its reach in all sorts of ways since the founding fathers unleashed PBO upon the world - value of boat, type of boat, geographical area of boating have all expanded. So if, for example, one of our titles does not concentrate exclusively on a very narrow remit is not entirely surprising.
Research tells us that not all people these days have the attention span to read 3000 words in 7pt on 8pt crammed into two pages with one black and white pic; our magazines are bound to reflect some of the changing habits of society and also the huge changes in print, production, illustration and photographic systems of the past decade. Whether we get that balance right is of course open to debate and that is fair and natural for us both to take criticism and to take note of it.
Lest anybody read the wrong thing into the last paragraph, I am violently against dumbing down and have always been one of those slightly dishonest editors who tells his contributors to keep it short and sweet only to excessively overwrite my latest offering. If you want to see absolute garbage soundbite journalism then look at some of the recent fad magazines - the ones covering mobile phones are a perfect example in my book (unless they have changed since the last time I bought one in a vain attempt to look for advice).
Whatever you take from this slightly knee-jerky reply, please at least give the editors on the boating titles here credit for having enthusiasm for their subject and also for being charged with a lot of responsibility for their individual magazines' destinies. I for one believe both of those statements to be true of the people I work with here.
Sorry, but this one was from the heart - perhaps I'll read it with my head screwed on later!
kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com
wildthyme
New member
Re: Not really helpfull!!
I started subscribing to PBO 5 years ago, when I bought my first cruiser. Then ST came out and I subscribed to that too. It seemed to me that PBO recognised the challenge, and upped their game. When it was time to decide which Mag I was going to stay with, there was no doubt that PBO offered much more of what I was interested in. I still think it's a good mag, and much better written than ST. OK, there's not much these days for wooden boat enthusiasts, but that's surely a specialist field which has (or ought to have) its own magazine. I could never understand all the stuff about keelsons and garboards, and suspect most people who own GRP boats are the same. As for the cost of the boats you write about, my latest boat is a relatively expensive monster, but all that means is that I have no money left to pay others to work on it, so I still have to do all the work on it myself, and I find PBO an excellent source of ideas and information.
P J Bartlett
I started subscribing to PBO 5 years ago, when I bought my first cruiser. Then ST came out and I subscribed to that too. It seemed to me that PBO recognised the challenge, and upped their game. When it was time to decide which Mag I was going to stay with, there was no doubt that PBO offered much more of what I was interested in. I still think it's a good mag, and much better written than ST. OK, there's not much these days for wooden boat enthusiasts, but that's surely a specialist field which has (or ought to have) its own magazine. I could never understand all the stuff about keelsons and garboards, and suspect most people who own GRP boats are the same. As for the cost of the boats you write about, my latest boat is a relatively expensive monster, but all that means is that I have no money left to pay others to work on it, so I still have to do all the work on it myself, and I find PBO an excellent source of ideas and information.
P J Bartlett
colin_jones
New member
"Besides losing the plot, I think they have also lost touch with the readership. I could relate to Geoff Pack and Rodger Witt (where and why did he go?), even dear old George Taylor. I can still relate to Andrew Bray. The reason? These guys (no sexism intended) seemed to be real sailors, more interested in getting out there and sailing and writing about it, rather than driving a desk, cut off from the readership. "
I have been admiring Kim's explanation and defence and was not going to join in this interesting battle until I read the paragraph above. Over the years, I have written for all the mainstream marine titles and am the editor of a business magazine. The anonymous penman above and I have things in common.
If he looks at the front of PBO he will realise that there is more to a mag than the editor. PBO lists a panel of 'experts' all of whom are boaters and owners and some of us actually spend as much time on the boat as on the shore, so the writing staff can scarcely be accused of just driving a desk. I should also add that there are frequent discussions with the permanent staff and the emphasis is always on 'practical.' We meet many people during our annual 6 months afloat and they all have interesting things to say about boats in general and what they like to read in particular. We have a great hobby which has some super people in it. I am delighted with the response we get from them and via the Colvic Watson website. We cannot please all of the people all of the time, but we are doing our best for the majority and my own feedback (plus the advertising volume and circulation) is that we are getting it right for a fair few.
I can also say that in my 20 years of association with major mags, I have only once heard an editor mention advertising and that was when he flipped because some muppet was saying "I have supported you with advertising..." The Ed's explosion said that if he wanted to support something he should donate to a charity. If he wanted to sell his goods, then he must advertise in places where people read. Advertising is obviously important, but I have never known it to influence editorial.
On a personal note, I get as much pleasure and info from reading the ads as from the body of many publications
For many reasons, I no longer write 'knocking' copy. If I am offered a bad product, I send it back with suggestions for improvement. Other writers will do likewise. I do not see PBO et al as a sort of 'Which.'
A final note on the intro paragraph is that the greatest mistake an editor or a writer can make is to publish only what pleases him/her rather than fresearch and act on what the majority of the readers want.
I have been admiring Kim's explanation and defence and was not going to join in this interesting battle until I read the paragraph above. Over the years, I have written for all the mainstream marine titles and am the editor of a business magazine. The anonymous penman above and I have things in common.
If he looks at the front of PBO he will realise that there is more to a mag than the editor. PBO lists a panel of 'experts' all of whom are boaters and owners and some of us actually spend as much time on the boat as on the shore, so the writing staff can scarcely be accused of just driving a desk. I should also add that there are frequent discussions with the permanent staff and the emphasis is always on 'practical.' We meet many people during our annual 6 months afloat and they all have interesting things to say about boats in general and what they like to read in particular. We have a great hobby which has some super people in it. I am delighted with the response we get from them and via the Colvic Watson website. We cannot please all of the people all of the time, but we are doing our best for the majority and my own feedback (plus the advertising volume and circulation) is that we are getting it right for a fair few.
I can also say that in my 20 years of association with major mags, I have only once heard an editor mention advertising and that was when he flipped because some muppet was saying "I have supported you with advertising..." The Ed's explosion said that if he wanted to support something he should donate to a charity. If he wanted to sell his goods, then he must advertise in places where people read. Advertising is obviously important, but I have never known it to influence editorial.
On a personal note, I get as much pleasure and info from reading the ads as from the body of many publications
For many reasons, I no longer write 'knocking' copy. If I am offered a bad product, I send it back with suggestions for improvement. Other writers will do likewise. I do not see PBO et al as a sort of 'Which.'
A final note on the intro paragraph is that the greatest mistake an editor or a writer can make is to publish only what pleases him/her rather than fresearch and act on what the majority of the readers want.
lauradee
New member
Sailing Today
i sub to pbo and ym, avidly read anything and everything about boats, picked up ST and thought this isnt too bad,
her indoors thinks that i should sub to ST cause she likes it as being more down to earth and drop one of the others,
are you listening kim, LIBS is where she will make up our minds !!
s
i sub to pbo and ym, avidly read anything and everything about boats, picked up ST and thought this isnt too bad,
her indoors thinks that i should sub to ST cause she likes it as being more down to earth and drop one of the others,
are you listening kim, LIBS is where she will make up our minds !!
s