How dangerous is it?

[lumphammer]

Talking with a passerby about plans to head off next year for two years in Caribbean, he was generally negative about anchorage choices. You are either in isolated anchorage and likely to get robbed/murdered or anchoring with everybody else where you will be bashed by dragging charter boats.

I'm hoping this is just uninformed mis-information, what is the real story?

 

[macd]

By the Carib do you mean the tiny portion that is the Antilles (the only area with extensive charter traffic)? If so, I'd say the likelihood of been bashed and robbed is of a similar order of magnitude to parts of the Med, although the risk of murder may be higher, if perhaps not as high as Miami.

 

[rivonia]

What a scaremonger!!

Do not believe it. Speak to people who live aboard there and get the honest facts.

We were there many moons ago and loved it. Safe quite anchorages and we sailed from Grenada all the way through the Bahamas up the Inter Coastal water way and over to the Azores.

Peter

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Talking with a passerby about plans to head off next year for two years in Caribbean, he was generally negative about anchorage choices. You are either in isolated anchorage and likely to get robbed/murdered or anchoring with everybody else where you will be bashed by dragging charter boats.

I'm hoping this is just uninformed mis-information, what is the real story?

There be Dragons.

 

[Ariadne]

Like any where else in the world, if you leave stuff unattended or not locked it will walk. If you wander into lonely, dodgy areas you have a chance to get robbed and beaten.

If you can survive life in any major UK city then you perfectly suited to living anywhere in the world. Use the same precautions and look just as hard at what you are doing, you wouldn't leave home without locking up, use an ATM and wave your cash around in the night or day, wander into dodgy areas.

The Caribbean is very safe if you treat it and the people with respect, just don't leave your brain at home!

 

[PhilipH]

Look here: http://freecruisingguides.com/register-for-csi/

As others have said - it depends where you go and what you do, and it's hugely varied. Whoever would you up is a plonker and knows nothing. As with anywhere in the world there are risky places (Venezuela) and not risky (Antigua). Cuba is immensely safe and fascinating. Friends say Colombia is fine, but a friend of ours was tied up and robbed at knife point on his boat in Colon, Panama a few months ago.

You just have to be sensible and always, always lift the dinghy at night ... and fasten it with a wire/chain and lock ... and don't wear expensive jewellery ... and carry your camera in a plastic shopping bag ... and have some pepper spray by your bunk ... and fit security grills to the companionway and hatches ... and tripwires attached to rape alarms in the cockpit ... and electrify the guardrail ...

 

[KellysEye]

Scaremongering, although there are no go areas. Venezuela was fairly safe but not now, that includes Margarita. The Venezuelan out islands, the Rocques and Aves are safe. There have also been robbery incidents on the passage between Grenada and Trinidad and in Trinidad. The number of yachts heading to Trinidad has decreased considerably.

For full details of Caribbean crime look here: http://www.safetyandsecuritynet.com/

 

[SvenglishTommy]

A passer by once told me that 2000 people a year are killed crossing the road or driving to work. So I bought a boat

 

[multihullsailor6]

Good man!

 

[TQA]

Well I have chosen to retire to a boat in the Caribbean and feel it is safer than Britain.

Sure there are a few places I would not go, but most places are safe if you exercise common sense.

Mind you I did have my dinghy and engine stolen this year. Which still puzzles me. Why did the thief pass up a brand new and unsecured Honda powered posh dink to steal my [ deliberately ] scruffy dink with a 28 year old Johnson cutting the security wire to do so.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

The Caribbean is a rather large area and comprises of quite a few different independent countries.

It is better to focus on particular areas or countries, rather than the entire region and tar it all with the same brush which is rather unfair.

By way of comparison

Europe:
Area 10,180,000 km2 (3,930,000 sq mi)[o]
Population 739,165,030[o] (2011), 3rd)
Pop. density 72.5/km2
Demonym European
Countries 50 (list of countries)

Caribbean:
Area 2,754,000 km2 (1,063,000 sq mi)
Land area 239,681 km2 (92,541 sq mi)
Population (2009) 39,169,962[1]
Density 151.5 /km2 (392 /sq mi)
Ethnic groups Afro-Caribbean, Indo-Caribbean, Chinese Caribbean,[2] Amerindians (Arawak, Caribs, Taínos), European
Demonym West Indian, Caribbean person, Caribbean
Languages Spanish, English, French, Dutch and many others
Government 13 sovereign states
17

Island groups
Lucayan Archipelago[18]
Bahamas
Turks and Caicos Islands (United Kingdom)
Greater Antilles
Cuba
Hispaniola
Haiti
Dominican Republic
Jamaica
Cayman Islands (United Kingdom)
Puerto Rico (U.S. Commonwealth)
Lesser Antilles
Leeward Islands
U.S. Virgin Islands (United States)
Saint Croix
Saint Thomas
Saint John
Water Island
British Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
Tortola
Virgin Gorda
Anegada
Jost Van Dyke
Anguilla (United Kingdom)
Antigua and Barbuda
Antigua
Barbuda
Redonda
Saint Martin (politically divided between Saint Martin (France) and Sint Maarten (Netherlands))
Saba (BES islands, Netherlands)
Sint Eustatius (BES islands, Netherlands)
Saint Barthélemy (French Antilles, France)
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Kitts
Nevis
Montserrat (United Kingdom)
Guadeloupe (French Antilles, France) including
Les Saintes
Marie-Galante
La Désirade
Windward Islands
Dominica
Martinique (French Antilles, France)
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Saint Vincent
The Grenadines
Grenada
Grenada
Carriacou and Petite Martinique
Barbados
Trinidad and Tobago
Tobago
Trinidad
Leeward Antilles
Aruba (Kingdom of the Netherlands)
Curaçao (Kingdom of the Netherlands)
Bonaire (BES islands, Netherlands)

Flag Arms Name Area
(km²) Population
Population density
(per km²) Capital
Albania 28,748 2,831,741 98.5 Tirana
Andorra 468 68,403 146.2 Andorra la Vella
Armenia [k] 29,800 3,229,900 101 Yerevan
Austria 83,858 8,169,929 97.4 Vienna
N/A Azerbaijan [l] 86,600 9,165,000 105.8 Baku
N/A Belarus 207,560 9,458,000 45.6 Minsk
Belgium 30,528 11,007,000 360.6 Brussels
Bosnia and Herzegovina 51,129 3,843,126 75.2 Sarajevo
Bulgaria 110,910 7,621,337 68.7 Sofia
Croatia 56,542 4,437,460 77.7 Zagreb
Cyprus [e] 9,251 788,457 85 Nicosia
Czech Republic 78,866 10,256,760 130.1 Prague
Denmark 43,094 5,564,219 129 Copenhagen
Estonia 45,226 1,340,194 29 Tallinn
Finland 336,593 5,157,537 15.3 Helsinki
France [h] 547,030 63,182,000 115.5 Paris
Georgia [m] 69,700 4,661,473 64 Tbilisi
Germany 357,021 83,251,851 233.2 Berlin
Greece 131,940 10,645,343 80.7 Athens
Hungary 93,030 10,075,034 108.3 Budapest
Iceland 103,000 307,261 2.7 Reykjavík
Ireland 70,280 4,234,925 60.3 Dublin
N/A Italy 301,230 58,751,711 191.6 Rome
N/A Kazakhstan [j] 2,724,900 15,217,711 5.6 Astana
Latvia 64,589 2,067,900 34.2 Riga
Liechtenstein 160 32,842 205.3 Vaduz
Lithuania 65,200 3,195,702 50.3 Vilnius
Luxembourg 2,586 448,569 173.5 Luxembourg
N/A Republic of Macedonia 25,713 2,054,800 81.1 Skopje
Malta 316 397,499 1,257.9 Valletta
Moldova 33,843 4,434,547 131.0 Chişinău
Monaco 1.95 31,987 16,403.6 Monaco
Montenegro 13,812 616,258 44.6 Podgorica
Netherlands 41,526 16,318,199 393.0 Amsterdam
Norway 324,220 5,018,836 15.5 Oslo
Poland 312,685 38,625,478 123.5 Warsaw
Portugal [f] 91,568 10,409,995 110.1 Lisbon
Romania 238,391 21,698,181 91.0 Bucharest
Russia [c] 17,075,400 142,200,000 8.3 Moscow
San Marino 61 27,730 454.6 San Marino
Serbia [g] 88,361 7,120,666 91.9 Belgrade
Slovakia 48,845 5,422,366 111.0 Bratislava
Slovenia 20,273 2,050,189 101 Ljubljana
Spain 504,851 45,061,274 89.3 Madrid
Sweden 449,964 9,090,113 19.7 Stockholm
Switzerland 41,290 7,507,000 176.8 Bern
N/A Turkey [n] 783,562 74,724,269[138] 97[138] Ankara
Ukraine 603,700 48,396,470 80.2 Kiev
United Kingdom 244,820 61,100,835 244.2 London
Vatican City

 

[Ariadne]

Scaremongering, although there are no go areas. Venezuela was fairly safe but not now, that includes Margarita. The Venezuelan out islands, the Rocques and Aves are safe. There have also been robbery incidents on the passage between Grenada and Trinidad and in Trinidad. The number of yachts heading to Trinidad has decreased considerably.

For full details of Caribbean crime look here: http://www.safetyandsecuritynet.com/

You been in Trinidad recently then?

No robberies, no dinghy theft, no hassle ashore for over two years or more. As for incidents on passage between Trinidad and Grenada, I have a few friends in the T&T coast guard, done the passage myself in June and met plenty of cruisers who have also done the passage (before and after) without incident, and having been there less then 3 weeks ago I haven't heard a 1st, 2nd or 3rd hand collaborated report about any incidents on this passage.

Most of the scaremongering stories are being put about by people & businesses in Grenada who don't want to lose business to Trinidad. When in fact you will get a better service as 90% of stuff is in walking distance (not a taxi, free bus or a long walk!), you can work on your own boat, your out of the hurricane belt (Grenada has been hit a few time recently!) it's cheaper and the standard of work is far higher.

Check your info before posting stuff like this, Noonsite have just pulled a report to this effect and have apologized for miss information.

 

[Chalker]

Ariadne, as I read it, that was what the OP did. Got a bad report and asked on the forum if it was true.

Maybe it wasn't aimed at him.

 

[Matelot Joe]

What a scaremonger!!

Do not believe it. Speak to people who live aboard there and get the honest facts.

We were there many moons ago and loved it. Safe quite anchorages and we sailed from Grenada all the way through the Bahamas up the Inter Coastal water way and over to the Azores.

Peter

I worked there ( Bahamas ) for some yrs and have been back just a few yrs ago to see friends.
The sailing, water etc fantastic, but you will need eyes in the back of your head and nail everything down, its a theives paradise.
Once the novelty wears off, you soon realise it a dung heap and I personally, could not wait till I got off the island. ( Nassau )
To quote the American consulate at a time when I was there, who was speaking to a friend, who's wife had a spot of bother and who had ended up in hospital. Think your self lucky you're taking your wife home alive, you would be shocked by the number of people that leave this island in a box.
( his exact words )
I have no wish to put anyone off, but be on your guard, really.

 

[Ariadne]

Yes, but you can say the same for parts of London, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Leeds Cardiff, Glasgow, Barcelona, Paris, Berlin, Athens, Rio, Lisbon,etc, etc any big city anywhere in the world in fact. But many, many people still live there and go on holidays to these places without getting killed, mugged and raped!

You are (seriously) more likely to get injured on a UK road (driving or walking) than be attacked anywhere on a boat. I've met a few people who have been attacked and robbed, and when you get the whole story (most, not all) are from stupidity, like getting a load of cash, going on the piss and then falling asleep in the cockpit, and being the only boat in the anchorage. Same as dinghy theft, in most cases the dinghy wasn't tied onto the boat or not locked up when on the beach dinghy dock.

Lets stop scaremongering, get some facts out and let other have the experience of cruising foreign lands and enjoy it; not just rumors and hearsay as we are starting to see on here about just about everything.

 

[Palarran]

I spent 2 years off and on sailing the Leewards. There is a lot of crime but almost all of it is between local islanders not against tourists. Take the precausions that where suggested and you will be ok.

One comment about the previous observation that once the novelty wears off you realize it's a dung heap - is pretty accurate for many of the islands. It's a real shame that the locals don't realize how badly they are ruining their lives by trash, half built buildings, graffitti, etc. I was very burned out from looking for paradise and ending up in a ghetto afraid to open my door to go to the super market. Not always, but sometimes.

 

[phantomlady]

Dare I say this.....will probably get shot down but never mind
Have people ever thought that crime could be invited by ones own actions??
Have met lots of people on our travels who are honest, decent, friendly and treat people how they would like to be treated themselves.
But, have also met quite a few who are arrogant, rude and condescending to the various local peoples (and other boaters!)
We, personally, have never been victims of crime in foreign lands, either against our boat or person.
We always treat people, rich or poor, with respect and friendliness. We also try to respect the local customs and ways.
We are relatively poor in our own country but always remember that to many folks on our travels we are rich beyond their wildest dreams.

 

[Sandyman]

Dare I say this.....will probably get shot down but never mind
Have people ever thought that crime could be invited by ones own actions??
Have met lots of people on our travels who are honest, decent, friendly and treat people how they would like to be treated themselves.
But, have also met quite a few who are arrogant, rude and condescending to the various local peoples (and other boaters!)
We, personally, have never been victims of crime in foreign lands, either against our boat or person.
We always treat people, rich or poor, with respect and friendliness. We also try to respect the local customs and ways.
We are relatively poor in our own country but always remember that to many folks on our travels we are rich beyond their wildest dreams.

Got it in a nutshell. Nothing more to be said. BZ

 

[BrianH]

Have people ever thought that crime could be invited by ones own actions??

Yes, I have thought that, but only by those who insensitively flaunt their wealth amongst poor communities. However, what I do think is that generally, perpetrators do not consciously chose the nasty people to rob, they chose the most vulnerable, the easiest pickings, because most of them are unprincipled. There are such in all societies and being nice to everyone will not protect you - it may even mark you out as a soft target.

We, personally, have never been victims of crime in foreign lands, either against our boat or person.
We always treat people, rich or poor, with respect and friendliness. We also try to respect the local customs and ways.

Neither have I been a victim and I also try to adopt your same behavior, which should be the default by anyone - but I do not consider it why I have escaped so far when I know others, decent and well-behaved, who have not.

 

[KellysEye]

>Check your info before posting stuff like this

Caribbean Compass March 2010
Trinidad-Grenada Passage Security Suggestions

by Melodye Pompa

In view of the recent robbery and assault of a yacht enroute from Trinidad to Grenada (see “Robbery of Yacht Between Trinidad and Grenada Spurs International Security Measures” by James Pascall in last month’s Compass), and the various reports of similar incidents in the same area and in Venezuelan waters over the past several years, there are some very specific precautions which cruisers can take to avoid or minimize attempts against them. Full details of the incident as well as plans from the coast guards of Grenada and Trinidad & Tobago, as well as from those nations’ marine trades groups, MAYAG and YSATT, to minimize future incidents can be found at www.grenadabroadcast.com/content/view/7005/45/.
The Trinidad & Tobago Coast Guard advises that pirogues are active from the south coast of Grenada and moving out to the north and east of Tobago to move marijuana to Toco, at the northeast corner of Trinidad. The pirogues are active around the gas-drilling rigs as these are used as landmarks for boats without navigation equipment. However, the pirogues range all over the area, from the north coast of Venezuela to Tobago and to the south coast of Grenada.