How can You trust a Broker

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JamesS

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With the demise of Peters Opal it raises the question of how do you deal with a broker. With several would be purchasers and sellers now facing the prospect of lost deposits - how do you protect yourself a a buyer from the possibility of the broker suddenly going out of business taking your deposit with him.

We are in the market for a replacement boat but quite frankly are being put off by the prospect of finding ourselves dealing with a broker whose future may be uncertain.

Any views welcome.
 
I have never used a broker. Loads of people are selling their own boats and if large sums of money are involved, use a solicitor specialising in yacht purchasing for the purchase. Worked really well for me.
 
with a major (company) broker you could get their accounts and make sure they are financially OK - although accounts may be out of date so not a guarantee. Could be worth negotiating to only transfer significant funds to broker/buyer on exchange of title - may be more acceptable to seller if lawyer holds funds as intermediary. in general be extremely careful! good luck.
 
DONT trust a broker to hold a deposit. Put the deposit in to a seperate "ESCROW" account managed by a law firm. Any solicitor will handle this for you. No respectable broker could legitimately object to this. If it's a deal breaker there is something wrong. The broker should make his money from commission on the sale not holding money on deposit. When buying a house you do precisely this, not paying a deposit to an estate agent. Why do it with a boat?
 
you should get a bit more comfort-if not absolute security-from a broker who is registered.. at least they have a code.
Otherwise,use a solicitor.
 
Some good advice here. The whole deposit nonsense is supposed to indemnify the seller for expenses he/she incurs if the deal falls through for no good reason...rubbish!!...it's to ensure the broker gets his commission. Having bought my present boat privately, but was in negotiation on one other through a broker, I would much prefer to deal with a private seller. No matter what they tell you about title and all the rest of it, I don't feel a broker adds any real value beyond a) listing a boat b) showing it to prospective buyers if the owner hasn't the time.
 
We have just bought a yacht through Premier and it was a very smooth transaction. They asked for a deposit of 10% what they got was 3% on a credit card and a promise to make up the difference in two weeks. Actually we didn't bother because by then I had instructed Duncan Saunders to survey her and paid for the lift, so Premier could see we were serious rather than just tyre kicking.

Pete
 
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how do you protect yourself a a buyer from the possibility of the broker suddenly going out of business taking your deposit with him.

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If it's a second hand boat, presumably the deposit is merely a sign of good faith which means the boat gets taken off the market and is yours provided you do certain things within a certain time scale.

So you could tell them that you wont be paying a deposit and, if they find a better buyer, so be it. I guess you risk your survey fee if they actually did find another buyer after you had spent the money.

Having said that, I wonder what would be the cost of employing a solicitor to hold the money in an Escrow account and deal with all/some of the paperwork.

If it's a new boat built to order where stage payments are made, it's a different kettle of fish.

Richard
 
Sadly, the boating business has a bad track record in terms of consistency, reliability and trustworthiness. I think that in the majority of cases, failure of companies / brokers is usually down to poor management rather than a deliberate attempt to defraud the client. Boatbuilding history is littered with the bones of firms that paid no heed to the great god Cashflow and ploughed on doggedly deeper and deeper into debt and beyond the point where rescue was impossible.. Personally, I am always wary of concerns that grow too fast and have too many irons in the fire. We bought our last boat privately, but our previous boat was bought and sold through a broker specialising in the marque. Tne transaction in both cases was carried our very efficiently and professionally. The firm in question has worked hard to build a reputation and was not about to jeopardise it for the sake of a quick buck. I think it would be naive to believe that private deals are all sweetness and light, I know of some real horror stories of private deals that have gone wrong, leaving folk well out of pocket, wiped out emotionally and facihg the choice between walking away or going to law with all its costs and uncertainty of outcome.
 
How can You trust a Broker ?
You can trust most yacht brokers, but ONLY deal with ABYA brokers and insisting that they provide proof of their third party insurance policy that you can check with the insurance company, and details of their Clients account also know as Escrow or Stakeholders account.

If they cannot or will not provide these then go elsewhere.

Brokers do a lot more than most give them credit for, there are plenty of forumites here who will agree with me.
 
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You can trust most yacht brokers, but ONLY deal with ABYA brokers ...

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For interest, Peters Opal were/are registered with ABYA.

How about Deva Marine? (They're not Listed on the ABYA web site, but presume they have been removed).

Andy
 
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you should get a bit more comfort-if not absolute security-from a broker who is registered.. at least they have a code.
Otherwise,use a solicitor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Peters Opal were registered and members of everything - seems t me this provided no security at all...............
 
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For interest, Peters Opal were/are registered with ABYA.


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That's one step in the right direction.

If they also had third party insurance and a Clients account, then providing customers paid into the Clients account those customer should eventually get their money back in full.

If it does not work this way, I for one would very much like to know why.

If anyone involved with Peters Opal debacle and has monies suspended, feels able to comment here, that would be great.
 
George they did have a client account. The problem,according to KPMG was that not all the client money went into it, some was paid into the current account, presumably to reduce their £9 million overdraft. Not much comfort for minor creditors there then
 
I forget the details, but wasn't there a broker in Hamble some years back who went under with a "dodgy" client account? From what I recall he was back in business again shortly afterwards with "sorry I'll do better next time" or something like that. Somebody probably knows more about the details of this than me, but I remember saying to myself at the time that here was a lesson we ALL need to learn...and it's made me wary of brokers ever since.
 
As a matter of interest, has anyone ever entered into a "finders" or "listing" fee arrangement with a broker, where in effect you sell the boat yourself, but if they introduce the buyer through their advertising they get a small commission? I'm sure when I put my boat up for sale, the local brokers will be sniffing around wanting to sell it, and the above would be my response.
 
I am surprised that no one has posted the old joke:

How can you tell if a broker is lying?

His lips are moving.

Or was that a lawyer? Mind you I bought one boat through a broker (Dennis Lowes in Lymington) and received great service. I tried to sell another boat through a broker and got no help. They would not even show the boat to people enquiring, kept implying there was something funny about it, until it was moved to another location for the winter. One of the potential buyers saw it there, contacted me by leaving a note in the cockpit and completed the sale privately. The yard took a 1/2% cut however.

The buyer told me the whole story of how the broker actually tried to put him off viewing: "lost the keys, bad survey, we have a better boat on the books, owner changed his mind and not selling" etc. That brokerage changed hands a few times, so I will not reveal the identity.
 
have bought through brokers and sold through brokers and for last purchase paid broker to handle documentation of private purchase- overall have been happy with service provided - but - like I suspect many of us - have always been careful but will be more so next time!
 
Yes, it's not just financial trust that worries me. It's this kind of situation as well. As a potential buyer I've dealt with many brokerages. Some are very professional; some are not. In the past month I've been told a) here's the key..have a look yourself b) I'll call the owner, he'll show you around c) this boat is way too expensive, I wouldn't buy it d) I wouldn't touch any B*v*ria with a bargepole! Now as a buyer, I don't mind some of these responses...but would I use these guys to sell my boat...not bloody likely!!
 
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